Jamman vs. RC-20XL

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-100945.html New Digitech Jamman vs. RC-20XL Loop Station JKoeth 09-09-2005, 10:09 PM I'm really curious about the Jamman. It's pretty new so there's not many reviews out there. It seems to have gone beyond the Boss. Anyone tried both? aarondavis 09-10-2005, 07:30 AM I'm interested in comparisions too. I have a LS XL, which I love. Being able to save loops, 16 min of memory, it's frikkin cool! I'm not really tempted at all to replace the LS. BUT, the JamMan seems to stomp the Loop Station in memory. It uses flash cards, I do know that my Korg 4 track that uses flash cards, sounds like butt! I'm highly untech when it comes to the sampling rates/quality so someone might be able to shoot me down on that one. JKoeth 09-10-2005, 08:22 AM The sampling rate on the Jamman is higher. It's 44.1k so it is CD quality. That's about all I know. jazzgitter 09-10-2005, 10:56 AM The Jamman doesn't have the RC20XL's fadeout feature which I really like for live use. JKoeth 09-10-2005, 11:38 AM What about the Jamman's list of features? Removable CompactFlash™ Type I memory (up to 2GB of storage or 6-1/2 hour capacity) Records up to 99 loops USB connection XLR, 1/4", and 1/8" connections for a microphone, guitar, ampliÞer, and more 44.1k sampling rate 2 wide-spaced footswitches Create repeating or single-use phrases Double-digit segment display Metronome with multiple sounds and time signatures Loop decay and fade controls Rugged metal chassis Power supply included Does this "Loop decay and fade controls" mean something different? Have you tried it in person? Thanks for the feedback! D.G. 09-10-2005, 12:19 PM Originally posted by JKoeth What about the Jamman's list of features? Loop decay and fade controls Hmm. Where did you find this? I looked through the online user's manual and didn't find any reference to Loop decay and fade controls. JKoeth 09-10-2005, 12:38 PM I took a look at the Manual as well and didn't see it either but it's listed in the features everywhere. I found that list on Musician's Friend and elsewhere. Not sure what it means. The manual was not very specific. JKoeth 09-17-2005, 03:00 PM Anyone try both of these pedals? drolling 09-17-2005, 04:00 PM I've got the RCxl and the new DigiTech looper. I'm finding that the JamMan's working better for me than the RC20xl. Sounds better, for starters, and I'm able to pile on overdubs without as much denigration of sound quality that I'm getting from the Boss. I may not be using the Boss properly, tho', as I had no manual till Moe hipped me to the on-line pdf on a thread I started here a couple days ago. I've also really just scratched the surface with the JamMan, and haven't even read the manual- so I can't comment on the 'loop decay & fade' features yet. These new loopers are a lot more complicated than my old Lexicon JamMan and Boomerang+, which are pretty much plug & play boxes that aren't much harder to operate than a delay pedal. I'm just a player, really, who likes working with distorted guitar tones & polyrhythms- all the technical stuff's way over my head- Heck, I still track to tape and I'm still trying to get to the bottom of all the wonderful stuff that my Electrix Repeater is supposed to be able to do... At least the new JamMan seems to work with most compact flash cards. I have never been able to get my hands on a CFC that works with the Repeater so I'm still stuck with the original card that it shipped with. The JamMan comes with a 128 mb card that's got a few bass'n'drum loops already on it. Unlike the flashy samples that come with the Boss unit, these loops are basic blues/rock/funk/country grooves in guitar friendy keys ( E, A, D, G) that the most inexperienced looper can be up & running with in minutes. I'll take a look at the manual & try to post some useful info if I can.. drolling 09-18-2005, 05:49 AM Read the manual carefully last night and there is nothing about fades or loop decay. I'll be taking this question to the DigiTech forum & the yahoo users group, because this is a feature that would be very useful to me. Sometimes the manual's written before all the features are implemented. There's a couple of key functions of the BlackBox, for example, that I had to have explained to me be their tech support. It seems like they really rush a lot of things to market these days. telest 09-18-2005, 09:05 AM I'm going to check out the JamMan. Have owned a 'Rang and Loop Station in the past. I don't think they worked right though...on the play back, I didn't sound so hot. :eek: ;) Steve bluesdoc 09-18-2005, 11:52 AM I've have had the Boss and a current version Rang for a number of years and far prefer the Rang. This is because my use for it is as a jamming partner. I want to lay down a rhythm track, maybe a bass line, and just play lead over it. What I love about the Rang is the user friendliness of re-do's. Let's say I lay down a rhythm and screw up the last bar. It takes a blink of the eye to begin another version. I like this and need this. I did not like waiting for the Boss (and the JamMan is like this) to erase so I could start over. It seems like a small point, but somehow it makes a difference to me. Now, if I wanted to store a library of backing tracks, that would be a whole other thing and I'd probably pick up the JamMan. But that's not what I do. I want easy access lightning fast changes to what I'm doing and the Rang just does it. I also appreciate the on-the-fly output level control with the vol wheel. Actually I've been talking to Mike Nelson about a redesign of that wheel to make it even easier to use. btw, Mike (owner of Boomerang) sent out an email advertising a Rang that is about half price because there's a defect in the chip. The defect would almost never matter as it affects just one thing that I'd never use (can't recall the details at the moment). It's a very good deal. And no, I'm not a dealer for Boomerang..... my $.02 jon markp 09-18-2005, 12:40 PM I am wondering how people ar running their looper? What I was thinking was to run a two amp rig with the looper in front of the rythm rig and then playing the lead rig along side.Is anyony doing this? Why I am wondering about peoples set ups is,when people talk about big loops with multy instuments or drum,that wounldnt work with guitar amp to well. Give us some Ideas please. bluesdoc 09-18-2005, 02:44 PM I use mine in one of two ways. First, in the loop of a channel switcher, so the looper is 'seeing' all the effects and preamp tone before going to the power amp. If there's no loop, then I use a Palmer (either PGA 04 or PDI09) to get a line signal of the output for the looper, then run that to a second amp (power amp) to cab, as a slave. jon agentcooper2001 09-18-2005, 03:06 PM As a Boomerang user for many years, here are the things I wish Mike at Boomerang would do on a new looper: True bypass switch to take it out of the signal if needed smaller size than the existing boomerang take off the once/ab switch make it have less or no hiss at all. have it in a standard box, without the angle. My board is already angeled, so with a boomerang it's SUPER angled! This feature is not as important as the others, obviously. The sound quality and ease of use are un-matched by any other looper I've tried, including the new Boss RC20XL. I have no clue about rackmount loopers, but that is something I don't really want to get into. drolling 09-18-2005, 05:26 PM For realtime looping, these new offerings by Boss & DigiTech have not been able to replace the good old 'Rang and the original Lexicon JamMan (w/memory upgrade, of course). I was pretty sure it was my lack of ease with new technologies (I'm typing this on a pentiumII in windows98!!), so it's kinda reassuring to hear that other players are still using these old clunkers to make music. I've posted a question about that fadeout feature on those 2 JamMan forums and will be periodically checking back for a response. BmoreTele 09-18-2005, 05:45 PM Originally posted by markp Why I am wondering about peoples set ups is,when people talk about big loops with multy instuments or drum,that wounldnt work with guitar amp to well. If you're playing loops of drums, keys, etc., why not just record it and burn it to a CD that you plug into the PA? My son's band had their drums on CD. It worked fine live. The loopers like the RC20, JamMan, Boomerang, etc. were designed for guitarists, though it would be nice if they incorporated the suggestions from agentcooper2001. agentcooper2001 09-18-2005, 08:26 PM i can't believe no one has built a true bypass looper (phrase sampler) with the features I mentioned earlier. If they did, it would sell like hotcakes! (not the hotcake pedal, mind you) bpd_103 09-19-2005, 01:03 AM I have the original Boss RC-20. But I'm intrigued by the JamMan. It looks like it'll do everything the RC-20 will do ('cept maybe fade/decay) and then some. I don't use the RC-20 live, just for practice. It's in the FX loop so I record the rhythm track with the FX I want. Then switch to play leads or practice scales over it. Works slick. telest 09-19-2005, 08:05 AM I ordered the JamMan and will get it Wednesday, also downloaded the manual for a head start. I'll report back later in the week with initial impressions. My main objective is to loop music passages from cds to learn parts, and general goofing around with loops. Won't be using in a live setting. Steve BSHARP 09-19-2005, 08:08 AM I havn't tried the JamMan, but I've been using both the RC-20 and the new RC-20XL. The lack of a true bypass function isn't a problem if you use a Loooper bypass switch in the signal chain - but for best results, the RC-20 works best in the FX-loop of the amp assuming you have a parallel FX-loop and not a series FX-loop like a Marshall DSL amp. With a parallel FX-loop you get the benefits of true bypass, plus the lead tones are way better when playing along with your recorded loops. bluesdoc 09-19-2005, 09:17 AM Originally posted by agentcooper2001 As a Boomerang user for many years, here are the things I wish Mike at Boomerang would do on a new looper: True bypass switch to take it out of the signal if needed smaller size than the existing boomerang take off the once/ab switch make it have less or no hiss at all. Wow, I use the once switch all the time for layering. :eek: In fact, I use all the pedals so I'm not sure, for me, it'd fit in a smaller package. The hiss problem is tricky. It's a matter of finely dialing in the level knob but it is hard to get it totally silent. But I can easily get it quiet enough so I don't hear any hiss when playing. Mike is coming out with a stereo version sometime. Not sure of all it's features........ jon agentcooper2001 09-19-2005, 09:54 AM well, i was just thinking for a different version of the boomerang, not necessarily doing away with the existing version. Maybe a smaller one with those features for players with different needs. If it were just a tad smaller (in length) and they added a true bypass switch, I'd be happy. chrissh 09-19-2005, 10:19 AM Has anyone mentioned *stereo* ins/outs?Do any floor-based looping pedals have stereo i/o's?I like using the RC20,but no stereo ins is it's handicap for me. JKoeth 10-18-2005, 11:22 PM Just wanted to ressurect this thread to see if anyone has some new experiences or info on the new Jamman. drolling 10-19-2005, 02:11 AM I thought I'd posted this info, but it's probably in another thread- Customer support at DigiTech confirmed that the JamMan does not do fadeout or loop decay. Too bad. Even the Boss' fade function only works on saved loops, and overdubbing is defeated on fadeout. So it would seem that loop decay's possible only in the older style of loopers that have a delay or echo mode. TheGrooveking 10-19-2005, 09:31 AM I'll stick with my three original Lexicon JamMan units. Granted volatile memory and only 32 seconds, but they just work for me. Maybe I am old fashioned..... TheGrooveking Bruce 10-19-2005, 05:01 PM I have a Roland RCXL and purchased the Digitech Jamman from Musician's Friend after reading the specs from Digitech's website. I play mostly solo guitar and back myself up for solos with the looper so I couldn't wait to get it, thinking that it would be better, it's not. I even bought a 2G memory card while I was waiting for delivery so that I could load up a nights worth of music and in this way I would only have to solo and not play chords, saving my hands. After playing with it for about a week I realized that only soloing was extremely boring (for me) and not even using the memory that it came with. it uses a wall wart so there's another thing to have to plug in and run a cable to rather than just a 9V extension cable. At first I thought it sounded better and sonically it does, a little, but I found that it has an extremely annoying white noise that the Roland doesn't have. I thought that maybe I had a problem with some cables or something so I pluged into it directly and then into my amp and it was still there. I tried an Electrix Looper when they first came out and it had the same problem (continued on nex message.) Bruce 10-19-2005, 05:01 PM I'm wondering if it has something to do with using a memory card. I Plugged in my Roland RCXL again to check and the problem went away, so I sent the Jamman back to Musician's Friend and put the 2G card in my digital camera. Souled Out 10-19-2005, 05:55 PM Anyone know about the Riffbox Audio Looper by Backline Electronics came out in April 2005. CD quailty looping on your own timing, 100 presets. midi to drum machine etc. Just read about in a guitar mag, sound interesting and dosen't seem to work on same princple as Boss, Boomerang, etc. I am not completly happy with the tone quality of my RC BossXL. I couldn't find any threads on search. Anybody have one to compare to Boss, Rang, Jamman? JKoeth 01-31-2006, 11:16 AM I use my Jamman with no effects loop. Works great. drolling 01-31-2006, 11:39 AM Resurrecting the thread for additional comments re: JamMan vs. RC-20XL. So has anyone noticed anything additional about these two pedals that you think would influence the purchase of either? I think I am leaning toward the JamMan. I am going to play through a amp with NO effects loop. Can these pedals still be used? Thanks in advance for any additional comments.None of my amps have FX loops, so I usually place my looper at the end of the signal chain. I also run my amps pretty clean, w/distortion provided by pedals- that allows me to keep changing my tone w/each overdub. For looping direct to PA, or recording, I use tube driven rackmounted trem/reverb unit to dirty up the digital signal. If I were in your position, I'd wait for the new Boss RC-50 that just debuted at NAMM. Three SIMULTANEOUS loops, and STEREO, too. Boss has always been very coy about the sampling rates of the RC-20/XL, so you can bet your sweet booty there's some heavy compression going on (I can sure hear it). Not so w/the new RC-50's advertised 44.1K sampling rate. That's CD quality. As a piece of Boss gear, it won't be astronomically expensive, either (50,000 Yen according to Roland Japan). The one drawback? It's a MASSIVE MOFO... Bruce 01-31-2006, 02:06 PM Yeah, I was at the show and had my friend, who is a roland dealer, order me a new RC-50 at the show. It blows away any of the other loopers out there. It is big but not as big as having another person on stage with you, plus you don't have to pay it. The new one is stereo too so if you have stereo effects and you run it at the end of the chain you don't loose the stereo effect like on the RC-20, RC-20XL and the Jamman. loliramon 11-11-2008, 06:20 AM Hello, I´ve been using the rc 20 xl and must say it doesn´t work for me. i´m trying to sell it. It doesn´t have a way to select an accurate tempo. so if you play on top of drum machines, after a few loops, the pedal and the drum machine wont match. I read down there the jamman has a metronome. does that mean that if you press stop recording slightly before or after the beat, it still keeps the tempo?