[翻译]John McCrea表示《库伊拉》中标志性的酷儿角色原本是一个变装皇后

原文地址：Exclusive: John McCrea says Cruella’s “iconic” queer character was originally a drag queen

Exclusive: John McCrea says Cruella’s “iconic” queer character was originally a drag queen Gay Times独家采访：John McCrea表示《库伊拉》中标志性的酷儿角色原本是一个变装皇后

Meet Artie: Cruella’s fashion confidante and the first openly queer character in a live-action Disney film. 来见见Artie:库伊拉的时尚知己，也是迪士尼真人电影中第一个公开的酷儿角色。

WORDS BY SAM DAMSHENAS

26th May 2021

Ever since Glenn Close told Joely Richardson that she has “no use for babies” and criticised Jeff Daniels’ career as a video game manufacturer in her mission for a Dalmatian-skinned coat, the gays have clamoured for a more in-depth retelling of Cruella de Vil. While the acclaimed actress returned for one more live-action adventure, it’s Oscar winner Emma Stone who embodies the fierce fashion designer and puppy-napper in Disney’s long-awaited prequel – which launches this Friday on the streamer. In the Devil Wears Prada meets The Joker-esque blockbuster, the title character is joined by Artie – played by Everybody’s Talking About Jamie star John McCrea – an androgynous shop owner who assists Cruella as she makes a splash in the world of fashion. 自从Glenn Close告诉Joely Richardson她“对孩子一点用都没有”，又在她试图搞来一件斑点狗皮外套时贬低Jeff Daniels的电子游戏制造商职业后，同志们一直呼吁更有深度地把库伊拉·德维尔的故事再讲一遍。而当这位广受赞誉的女演员为了这场真人冒险电影再一次回归，这回轮到奥斯卡影后Emma Stone扮演来势汹汹的时尚设计师和小狗劫匪，这部期待已久的迪士尼前传将于本周五在流媒体平台推出。在这部《穿普拉达的女王》和《小丑》式的大片中，主人公中新加入了Artie这个角色——由参演了《人人都在谈论杰米》的John McCrea扮演——一位协助Cruella在时尚界大出风头的走中性风格的店主。

注：Glenn Close、Joely Richardson和Jeff Daniels皆为1996年真人电影《101真狗》（又译：《101忠狗》）中的演员；Glenn Close饰演Cruella de Vil、Joely Richardson饰演Anita、Jeff Daniels饰演Roger；Glenn Close同时也是2021年迪士尼真人电影《库伊拉》的监制之一，即文中提到的“再一次回归”。

The David Bowie and Mark Bolan-inspired Artie marks a landmark moment for Disney, as he historically becomes the entertainment giant’s first openly queer character in a live-action production. “I don’t think Disney have ever had a character quite like Artie before,” John tells GAY TIMES, “so I’m just really thrilled to be the person to bring that into that Disney world.” Here, we speak with John McCrea about his “iconic” new Disney character, as well as his surprising origins, and working with Emma Stone. 受David Bowie和Mark Bolan启发的角色Artie是迪士尼的一个里程碑，因为他历史性地成为了这家娱乐巨头在真人电影中的第一个公开的酷儿角色。“我认为迪士尼从未有过像Artie这样的角色。”John如是说，“所以我真的很高兴能成为把这个角色带到迪士尼的那个人。”我们和John McCrea聊了聊他的“标志性的”迪士尼新角色，以及他令人惊讶的起源和与Emma Stone的合作。

Congratulations on Cruella! It’s like Disney meets The Devil Wears Prada meets The Joker. It is a mental melting pot, but it’s completely worth it. Don’t you think? 恭喜《库伊拉》电影的大获成功！这就好像迪士尼和《穿普拉达的女王》以及《小丑》的结合。 （拍摄）非常费心费力，不过这完全值得，你不觉得吗？

Absolutely. For me, your character Artie was one of the highlights. How would you describe him? I think Artie is really on par with Cruella in terms of he’s such a rule breaker, especially when it comes to fashion. Really, he’s the pinnacle of what is great about that time. For him, it’s a lifestyle, it’s everyday. It’s not performative. It’s not something he takes off and puts on when he wants to. It’s his everyday existence, wearing those clothes and that makeup. He’s just wonderful. I don’t think Disney have ever had a character quite like Artie before, so I’m just really thrilled to be the person to bring that into that Disney world. 没错。对我来说，你的角色Artie是高光之一。你会怎么形容他？ 我认为Artie和Cruella不相上下，因为他一个喜欢打破常规的人，尤其是当与时尚有关时。真的，他是那个时代的一切伟大的顶峰。对他来说，这是一种生活方式，每天如此。这不是表演的。这不是他可以想脱就脱掉、想穿就穿上的东西。穿这种衣服、化那种妆容，这是他每天的生活方式。他真的太棒了。我认为迪士尼从未有过像Artie这样的角色，所以我真的很高兴能成为把这个角色带到迪士尼的那个人。

His fabulous style feels reminiscent of some androgynous icons of the past. Did you look to anyone in particular when you were embodying Artie? I remember when I auditioned for it the first time. Mark Bolan was given as a reference, so I had him in my head a lot. When I went to the audition, I wore this shirt as outrageously as I dared, something I would never wear on the street. I actually borrowed it from my friend because I didn’t even have anything that outrageous, and I put it on in the toilet of the audition. I was thinking of David Bowie to Mark Bolan, but David Bowie is in the back of my head all of the time, no matter what I’m doing – even if I’m just in Tesco. So, I couldn’t escape it. 他令人难以置信的风格让人想起过去的一些中性风格的偶像。当你化身为Artie的时候，有没有特别想起过什么人？ 我记得我第一次试镜的时候， Mark Bolan被给到作为参考，所以他经常出现在我的脑海里。当我去试镜的时候，我大胆地穿了这件衬衫，我从来不会在街上穿这件衣服。其实（这件衬衫）是我从朋友那借来的，因为我根本就没有那么夸张的衣服，然后我在试镜的厕所里穿上它。我从David Bowie想到Marc Bolan，但David Bowie一直在我的脑海里，无论我在做什么——即使我只是在Tesco（一家连锁超市）。所以，我无法逃离。

I was getting David Bowie meets Sharon Needles’ confessional look in Drag Race season four. Oh yes! I suppose so. Actually, interestingly, I shot it before but then Miley Cyrus did the hair. Do you not think it’s quite Miley Cyrus now? 我想的是David Bowie和Sharon Needles在变装皇后秀第四季里的自白的结合。 哦是的！我想是这样。事实上，有趣的是，我先拍了这部电影，然后Miley Cyrus剪了这个发型；你不觉得现在这个发型和Miley Cyrus的很像吗？

注：此处的Drag Race应该指的是RuPaul's Drag Race，RuPaul是一位很有名的变装皇后（在John McCrea参演的音乐剧《人人都在谈论杰米》中有提到）confessional应该指的是国外真人秀节目中会穿插的自白片段，搜了一下Sharon Needles在第四季的confessional look如下：

真的好像……

It’s Midnight Sky hair! I don’t wanna say bitch stole my look, but I definitely did it first… I remember when I first saw the picture and I was like, ‘She stole my hair!’ The first time we ever tried that wig on it, it did not look like that. It looked like Princess Diana and we really had to chop into it. 这是Midnight Sky里的发型！ 我不想说Miley Cyrus那个小婊砸偷了我的发型，但是绝对是我先剪的……我记得当我第一次看到她的图片，我想到的是：“她偷了我的发型！”我们第一次试那顶假发的时候，它并不长（现在）这样。它看起来像戴安娜王妃，所以我们不得不把它剪成（现在）这样。

注：Midnight Sky为Miley Cyrus的单曲，其mv于2020年发布，《库伊拉》的拍摄则于2019年完成，只不过由于疫情一直迟迟未上映。

Watching the film, I came to the assumption that Artie is queer. As a queer person yourself, did you intend to portray him that way? Yeah. I think there’s an element of that in everything. Yes, I did. I always knew he was. Interestingly, in one of the first scripts, he was a drag queen. But then, that idea changed because everyone realised it was more important, like I said, that it’s a lifestyle choice for him – it’s not a performance. But yeah, he’s fabulous in every single way. I think it’s important to say he is queer because obviously, lots of people were dressed like that at the time that weren’t necessarily queer, but in my head, he always was. 看电影的时候我就觉得Artie是酷儿。你本人作为一个酷儿，你是不是有意这样扮演他的呢？ 是的。我认为酷儿在Artie这个角色中是个非常重要的元素。是的，我确实（这么认为）。我一直知道他是。有趣的是，在最初的剧本中，他曾是一个变装皇后。但是后来，这一想法改变了，因为所有人都认为这对他来说更重要，正如我所说，这是一种生活方式的选择，而不是表演。不过确实，他在各个方面都绝美。我认为说他是酷儿非常重要，因为很明显，当时很多人穿成那样但不一定是酷儿，不过在我看来，他一直都是。

I’m taking this as official confirmation that Cruella is an ally to the gays? Oh yes! She’d be hard pressed to work in fashion without running into them. 我可以说这是对于“Cruella是性少数群体的盟友”说法的官方盖章吗？ 哦当然！她既然在时尚界工作，就很难不遇到ta们。

What would it have meant for you to see a character like this growing up as an LGBTQ+ person? I would’ve loved it so much. I think it would’ve saved a lot of soul searching, for sure. The great thing about him is he’s iconic. He’s a rule breaker and has this great punk voice and attitude. I don’t really feel like he was, in any way… Sometimes there’s a worry about LGBTQ+ characters being there for no reason, or being the butt of the joke. But, he really feels like he fits so perfectly into that world. 对你来说，看到这样一个角色作为性少数成长起来有着怎样的意义？ 我简直不能更爱（这个角色）了。我想这绝对会减少许多自我探索的曲折。他的伟大之处在于他是标志性的。他是个打破常规的人，有着这种非常朋克的愿望和态度。我没怎么感觉他是，从各种意义上讲……有时候人们会担忧无缘无故冒出来一个性少数角色，或者这个角色成为笑柄。然而，他和这个世界真的非常搭调。

Artie and Cruella have this mutual understanding. They get each other. Do you think it’s just because of fashion or is it their backgrounds too? I think it’s because he understands a creative mind because he has one, in a way that Jasper and Horace don’t understand. He really gets it. I think that’s where they really join together, he understands how temperamental you can be if you’re bursting with all of these ideas and trying to get them out and the people around you don’t necessarily understand it. There’s a wonderful line where she asks how her look goes down on the street normally and he says, ‘People don’t always understand it, but I’m not here to be normal.’ I think they really jel together on that level. Artie和Cruella相互理解，心灵相通。你觉得这只是因为时尚或是因为ta们的背景？ 我想这是因为他富有创造力，所以他理解这样的人；某种程度上说Jasper和Horace就不能理解。他真的能get到。我想这是ta们相同的地方：他理解当你灵感爆发并且努力想要把这些想法付诸实践、而身边的人不一定能理解你的时候，你会变得喜怒无常。有一句很精彩的台词是当Cruella问Artie，当他走在街上的时候路人一般怎么看他，而他回答道“人们一般不能理解，但是我可不能忍受平平无奇。”我觉得在这一层面而言ta们很合拍。

注：此处可能是作者笔误，应为“she asks how his look goes down”。

You shared a majority of your scenes with Cruella herself, Emma Stone. What was it like working with her? It was just amazing. She’s really quite something. I remember specifically this one day we were on set. She’s the star of the movie, number one on the call sheet, and she was doing her lines, working a prop and had a dog next to her while feeding the dog treats to make sure it stayed. The amount of multitasking this woman was doing was fascinating to watch! She’s playful as an actress, we were allowed to try new things and she just had the character down. I mean, you couldn’t help but love her and her sassiness and her fabulousness. There’s a slight evil flint in her eye that’s so fun to look at and speak to. 你的大部分场景都是和Cruella，也就是Emma Stone一起拍摄的，和她合作是怎样的感觉？ 这真的太棒了，她真的很特别。我清楚地记得有次我们在片场，她是这部电影的主演，在通告单上排在第一个，她一边念台词，一边用着道具，身旁还有一只狗，一边喂狗吃东西以确保它待在原地。看着这个女人同时处理多件任务真是太惊人了！作为演员，她很幽默，她能把角色放下而我们能够尝试新东西。我的意思是，你没法不爱上她，她的狡猾和她的神气。她的眼睛里有一丝邪恶的闪光，看着她、和她说话都很有趣。

Cruella is far from a one-note type of villain. Watching this film, you come to love her and her backstory… You do, and I think that’s a testament to the script and the story as well. They give you this really three-dimensional idea of a character. There’s no way you can identify with someone who is two-dimensionally evil for no reason. You really have to give them a heart and soul because everybody has one. Not everybody chooses to show them all the time, but we all have them. Cruella远远不是一个单一的反派。看了这部电影，你会爱上她和她的背景故事…… 你确实会，而且我认为这也是对剧本和故事的一个验证。ta们给了你这个角色非常立体的概念，你没法用二元对立的好坏标准去评判一个角色。你得把ta们当作真实的、有灵魂的人看待，尽管有人选择有时候不展示这一面，但是我们都是有灵魂的人。

The character is so evil in previous adaptations, so I’m very intrigued to see how she’ll transform from Estella to the Cruella we see in this film, to the infamous Cruella who wants to kill 101 puppies… I think that’s the interesting thing to find out, and hopefully you will. Obviously, the way storytelling has evolved and changed is that there was a time where Disney villains were two-dimensional evil characters because of fables and fairytales. That is ultimately what this story is doing, identifying the human behind a cartoon, essentially. 这个角色在之前的改编版本中非常邪恶，所以我很好奇在这部电影中，她会如何从Estella转变为Cruella，再到声名狼藉的101只小狗杀手Cruella…… 我想这是一件非常有趣的事，希望你能找到答案。很显然，讲故事的方式已经改进了。由于寓言和童话，之前的迪士尼反派都是扁平的邪恶角色；这也是这个故事最终想要做的，从本质上描绘出动画片中的人来。

We’ve had films based on Cruella and Maleficent, so are there any other villains from Disney lore that you’d like to get the prequel treatment next? Ooh. I’d have to say Ursula, but only if it was played by a drag queen because she’s based on Divine. 我们已经有了改编自Cruella和Maleficent故事的电影，你希望下一步前传电影是迪士尼系列中的哪个反派角色？ 哦，我得说是Ursula，不过必须得是由变装皇后来扮演这个角色，因为她的原型是Divine。

注：Divine是一位变装皇后，Ursula的妆容和眉毛都和这位变装皇后相似。（下图是对比图）

Which drag queen would you like to see as Divine? I’d hate to choose! Can we bring Divine back from the dead? That’s pretty much the only person I can see do it. That would be amazing. But, I think they’re all wonderful. That is the whole point, isn’t it? You can find that human story – well, she’s a mermaid – and humanity in everyone. I think everyone has it. 你希望由哪位变装皇后扮演Divine？ 我讨厌做选择！我们可以让Divine起死回生吗？这是我想到唯一能做到的人。那将会非常棒，不过我认为变装皇后们都非常棒，这才是意义所在，不是吗？你能从每个人——好吧，她是美人鱼——身上找到人性与“人”的故事，我想每个人都有。

Why do you think the queer community is so enamoured with powerful female characters? Times have changed a lot and we’re not all the way there, but in terms of representation, we are getting a lot closer. I think when it wasn’t necessarily acceptable to be gay, that was a time when women were treated like second class citizens much worse than they are today. Again, we’re still working towards 100% equality, but they’ve just always understood what it felt like to be at the helm of a patriarchal white man. I think they have that in common, which is why all of the divas are these women in these male-dominated industries who have said, ‘No, I’m taking the reins,’ and that is what Cruella does fantastically. 你认为酷儿群体如此迷恋强大的女性角色是为什么？ 时代已经改变了很多，尽管我们仍未走到那一步，但就表现方式而言，我们已经接近了许多。我认为，那个同性恋不一定被接受的时代，也就是女性被当作二等公民的时代比今天要糟糕得多。当然，我们仍在努力实现百分百的平等，但ta们一直明白在父权制白人的掌控之下是什么感觉。我认为ta们有着这样的共同点，这也是为什么所有的女王都是这些在男性主导的行业中说“不，我要掌权”的女性，而这正是Cruella做得很好的地方。