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原始极致主义Mincecore缔造者 - 比利时碾核Agathocles乐队专访

火山杂志 2020-08-30 11:51:35

要问世界上那支乐队成立期间发行的专辑最多？西班牙的Haemorrhage乐队？美国的Exhumed乐队？法国的Pulmonary Fibrosi乐队？意大利的Cannibe乐队？日本的Catasexual Urge Motivation乐队？日本的Gore Beyond Necropsy乐队？日本的Clotted Symmetric Sexual Organ乐队？美国的Nunslaughter乐队？美国的Intestinal Disgorge乐队？那如果我说这些乐队都不是发行专辑最多的乐队你会怎么想呢？如果你知道来自比利时的Agathocles的话，那么你就会知道为什么我说的上面这些乐队都不是发行专辑最多的乐队了，Agathocles乐队从1987年开始发行专辑开始每年都有大量的专辑问世，从未间断过，可见乐队的创作能力是多么的丰富了。

故事是这样开始的在19719月20日，在比利时的MOL城市一个普通的家庭诞生了一名婴儿，他的家人为他取名为Jan Frederickx（扬·弗雷德里克）谁也没有想到就是这样一个普通的家庭诞生的这名男婴却是在以后影响了整个碾核届的人物，1985年14岁的Jan与同龄的Erwin相识并且组建了Necromantical Destructor，时隔一年乐队更名为M.S.D.同年乐队在此更换了乐队名字，此时的名字叫做Hellsaw，乐队使用这个名字发行了三张demo作品之后，1987年乐队正式更名为现在大家熟悉的Agathocles乐队，由此一支伟大的碾核乐队诞生了，从此开始了他们的碾核人生，也是从1987年开始Agathocles乐队开始了每年都有专辑发行，在长达35年的生涯里从未间断过发行专辑的行动，可以说每年乐队都有大量的专辑发行，Demo，EP，Spilt，Compilation等等，就单单2020年乐队就已经发行了多达25张专辑作品了。

再一次采访中乐队的主脑人物Jan回答了记者的一个问题，你是怎么定义你们乐队的风格的？Jan的回答是我把我们乐队的风格定义为 "Mincecore"与80年代的old school grindcore一样，的确他们的音乐听起来就是那种80年代的传统碾核那样的畅快淋漓，非常的过瘾，而且Agathocles乐队的音乐比起早起英国的碾核乐队Carcass，Napalm Death这些乐队更碾核，而且乐队在演唱方面显得更为接近现代化，各种演唱方式在Agathocles乐队非常常见，就像现在喉音（水喉），在Agathocles乐队里面占的比例很大基本都是这种演出方式，但是要比Carcass更极端，还有硬核音乐里面的叫喊，还有标准的低吼，所有你可以想到的演唱方式在Agathocles乐队里面你都可以听到，说实话怎么多极端的演唱方式早在80年代Agathocles乐队就开始使用了，可想而知在那个年代这支乐队是多么的极端，而且在Agathocles乐队的音乐里面你可以听到grindcore，death metal，punk，hareoore等等音乐风格混杂在他们的音乐里面，这样让音乐显得更加的混乱，粗糙，可以说在当时那个年代他们的音乐就是噪音，当然在后来的作品里面乐队的去掉punk，harecore等元素更多的是grindcore和death metal元素。

在Agathocles乐队成立的这35年的岁月里，乐队与太多太多的乐队合作过，你认识的，不认识的乐队他们都合作过，在这里我就不一一列举了，因为我自己都记不住，而且也与大大小小的各国标签都有合作发行过专辑，甚至有一些标签都已经倒闭了，可以看出来乐队对于创作是多么的热爱了，就在前几天我联系到了Agathocles乐队的主脑Jan对他进行了一次访谈，其实一开始我并没有抱太大的希望能够收到Jan的回信，甚至我觉得他不会接受这次采访的，但是没有想到的是很快我就收到了Jan的回复同意了我的这次专访的想法，而且很快的收到了问题的答案，让我惊喜不已，这也是我开始写文章之后采访到最伟大之一，下面就让我们来一起来更深刻的了解Agathocles乐队吧（V: 代表笔者 J: 代表Jan）

Would you like to ask that the band released the most albums during its establishment in the world? The bleeding band in Spain? American Exhumed band? French lung fiber thin fiber band? Cannibe in Italy? Japanese sexual irritation motive band? Japanese song and dance surpassed the autopsy band? Condensed Symmetrical Organ Band? American non-slaughter bands? American Intestine Band? So what would you think if I said that none of these bands have released the most albums? If you know Agathocles from Belgium, then you will know why none of the bands I mentioned above have released the most albums. Agathocles has released a large number of albums every year since 1987. However, we can see how rich the band’s creative ability is.

The story started like this. On September 20, 1971, an ordinary family in the Belgian city of MOL gave birth to a baby. His family named him Jan Frederickx (Jan Frederick) and no one thought it was like this. The baby boy born from an ordinary family was the person who influenced the entire grinding nuclear industry in the future. In 1985, 14-year-old Jan and Erwin of the same age met and formed the Necromantical Destructor. After a year, the band was called MSD the same year. After that, the band changed its name. The name at this time was Hellsaw. After the band released three demo works under this name, the band officially changed its name to the now-familiar Agathocles in 1987 and became a great grind-core band. Then, they started their grinding nuclear life. Since 1987, the Agathocles band began to release albums every year. During their 35-year career, they have never stopped releasing albums. It can be said that the band has every year. A large number of albums have been released, such as Demo, EP, Spilt, Compilation, etc. In 2020 alone, the band has released more than 25 albums.

In the interview again, Jan, the head of the band, answered a question from the reporter, how do you define your band's style? Jan’s answer is that I define our band’s style as "Mincecore". It is the same as the old-school grindcore in the 80s. Indeed, their music sounds like the traditional grindcore in the 80s. It is very enjoyable, and the Agathocles band. Napalm Death’s music is more grind-core than the early British grind-core bands, and the bands are more roughly close in terms of singing. Various singing methods are very common in Agathocles, just like the guttural sound (water pipe). , Agathocles has a large proportion in this way of performance, but it is more extreme than Carcass, there are screams in hardcore music, and standard groans. All the singing methods you can think of are in Agathocles You can hear it in the band. To be honest, how many extreme singing methods were used by the Agathocles band as early as the 1980s. You can imagine how extreme this band was in that era, and you can hear it in the music of Agathocles. It can be heard that grindcore, death metal, punk, hareoore and other music styles cannot be included in their music, which makes the music more violently chaotic and rough. It can be said that their music in that era is sound. Of course, in later works, the band The removal of punk, harecore and other elements are more grindcore and death metal elements.

In the 35 years since the establishment of Agathocles, the band has worked with too many bands. They have worked with bands you know and don’t know. I will not cascade one by one here, because I have all I can’t remember, and I have also cooperated with labels from all over the world to release albums, and even some labels have closed down. It can be cut to see how much the band loves creation. I contacted just a few days ago. Jan, the head of the Agathocles band, conducted an interview with him. Actually, I didn’t expect much to receive a reply from Jan. I even thought he would not accept this interview, but what I didn’t expect was that I would soon I received Jan’s reply and agreed to my thoughts on this interview, and I received the answer to the question very quickly, which surprised me. This is also the greatest interview I have found since I started writing the article. Let’s take a look. Let’s get a deeper understanding of Agathocles (V: for the author, J: for Jan)

V: 您的乐队成立于1985年。这是一个遥远的时代。您还记得您如何组建乐队吗？谁提出了agathocles乐队的形成？

Your band was founded in 1985. This is a distant era. Do you still remember how you formed the band? Who proposed the formation of the agathocles band?

J: 乐队是由Erwin（鼓/人声）和我（吉他/人声）于1985年创建的。那时我们是一支两人组成的乐队，我们都很年轻，根本无法弹奏乐器，哈哈哈。我们喜欢制作抗音乐的noisecore。我们俩都大约14岁。 Erwin和我，一年前就彼此认识了，因为我们俩都在做纸质杂志，而我在做一个小型磁带标签。那时我们俩住在同一个城市MOL。我的父母仍然住在MOL，现在我住在GEEL，那是一个非常接近MOL的城市。我们俩都陷入了极端的朋克和金属乐坛，我们想创建有史以来最吵，最快，最原始的乐队，哈哈哈。我们想自己制造噪音，因为我们喜欢的东西没有在我们去过的唱片店里出售。欧文和我当时在听HELLHAMMER，WRETCHED，CYANAMID，YDI，DISCHARGE，VENOM，BATHORY，DRI，STARK RAVING MAD，NEOS，CONFUSE，LARM，CRYPTIC SLAUGHTER，HELLHOUSE等乐队，所以那时对我们的影响。

The band was created by Erwin (drums/voice) and me (guitar/voice) in 1985. We were a two-piece band back then and we were all very young and could not play an instrument at all, hahaha. We loved to make anti-music noisecore. We both were around 14 years old. Erwin and me, we got in contact with eachother a year before, because both of us were doing a paper fanzine, and I was doing a small tape label. We both lived in the same city called MOL, back then. My parents are still living in MOL, now I am living in GEEL, that is a city very close to MOL. Both of us were into extreme punk and metal and we wanted to create the most noisy, fastest, raw band ever, hahaha. We wanted to make noise ourselves because the stuff we liked, was not being sold in the recordshops we went to. Erwin and me were listening to bands such as HELLHAMMER, WRETCHED, CYANAMID, YDI, DISCHARGE, VENOM, BATHORY, D.R.I., STARK RAVING MAD, NEOS, CONFUSE, LARM, CRYPTIC SLAUGHTER, HELLHOUSE and many more around that time, so these bands had an impact on us.

V: 乐队在1985年成立时，被命名为Necromantical Destructor，然后在1986年更名为MSD，然后在1986年至1987年更名为Hellsaw，并在1987年正式更名为agathocles。我可以找到有关Hellsaw的信息。 Hellsaw的时代仍然是一支死亡金属风格乐队。乐队发布了三个Demo。那么您能告诉我有关于Necromantical Destructor，MSD的信息吗？我想中国球迷想知道这些信息！

When the band was founded in 1985, it was named Necromantical Destructor, then changed its name to MSD in 1986, then changed its name to Hellsaw from 1986 to 1987, and officially changed its name to agathocles in 1987. I can find information about Hellsaw. The era of Hellsaw is still a band. The death metal style band has released three demos. So about Necromantical Destructor, can you tell me about the MSD? I think Chinese fans would like to know this information!

J: Erwin和我当时在其他乐队中，例如MSD和HELLSAW。这两个乐队是noisecore乐队，不是金属。我和其他人一起，Erwin和我也参加了名为EXTREEM的hardcore乐队。这些乐队都没有发行黑胶唱片或CD，只是发行了磁带版本。

Erwin and me were in some other bands back then like MSD and HELLSAW. These two bands were noisecore bands, not metal. With other people, Erwin and me were also in a hardcore band called EXTREEM. None of these bands have released vinyl or CD, just tapes and songs on compilation tapes.

V: agathocles乐队更改了替换成员，但只有您是固定成员。以前的成员现在仍然与他们联系吗？你们还是朋友吗？您对目前的成员安置感到满意吗？

The agathocles band has changed replacement members, but only you who are fixed members. Do the previous members still have contact with them now? Are you still friends? Are you satisfied with the current placement of members?

J: 现在的阵容是Koen，Nils和Jan。从2011年开始，我们一直在演出。Nils从2006年起一直在AGATHOCLES演出。并且其中一些还在其他乐队中演奏。

The line-up now is Koen, Nils and Jan. With this line-up, we have been playing since 2011. Nils has been playing in AGATHOCLES since 2006. About the other members, with some of them, I still have contact and some of them are still playing in other bands.

V: Agathocles乐队是世界上最伟大的乐队之一。您称自己的音乐风格为Mincecore。你能解释一下这种风格吗？你为什么叫自己的音乐风格Mincecore?

Agathocles is one of the greatest bands in the world. You call your music style mincecore. Can you explain this style? Why do you call your own music style mincecore

J: MINCE CORE是老派的核心人物，就像1980年代一样，那里的DIY伦理，自治，社会和政治意识，反音乐商业方法非常重要。尤其是DIY和自主权对于MINCE CORE非常重要。您不需要大型的主流唱片公司，商业订票代理机构，乐队经理等。所有事情都可以用另一种方式来完成，那就是全球朋友的DIY网络。在音乐上，MINCECORE是原始的，简约的，草率的grindcore，具有多种声音风格，并具有HELLHAMMER感觉和旧的DISCHARGE /旧的DISORDER鼓音。或者您可以说MINCECORE是极简主义grindcore的原始版本。

MINCE CORE is old school grindcore, like it was in the 1980’s, where DIY-ethics, autonomy, socially and politically awareness, anti-music business approach are very important. Especially DIY and autonomy are very important to MINCE CORE. You don’t need big mainstream labels, commercial booking agencies, band-managers and all that. All things can be done in another way, and that way is the DIY-network of friends worldwide. Musically, MINCECORE is raw, minimalistic, sloppy grindcore with multiple vocal styles backed up with HELLHAMMER-feeling and old DISCHARGE/old DISORDER drumbeats. Or you can say that MINCECORE is a very noisy and raw version of minimalistic grindcore.

V: 自成立以来，Agathcoles已有30多年的历史了。乐队成立以来已经有多长时间了，已经发行了大量作品，而且数量惊人。我觉得您所有的经验都用于创作歌曲。我可以请你创作歌曲吗？所有乐队成员都参与了创作吗？ Agathcoles乐队每周排练几次？

Agathcoles has been an old band for more than 30 years since its establishment. How long has it been since the establishment of the band, it has released a large number of works, and the number is amazing. I feel that all of your experiences are put on song creation. May I ask you to create songs? Did all the band members participate in the creation? How many times does the agathocles band rehearse every week?

J: 是的，距今已有35年的历史了很长的时间。我对此有何感想？我对这些年来以及我们在这些年来能够做的事情感到满意。我希望在未来的几年中能发出更多的声音。我们不经常排练，也许每年12次。但是，当我们排练时，我们会制作新歌并立即录制它们。这就是我们的工作方式。

Yes, 35 years AGATHOCLES now, quite a long time. What I feel about it? I am happy with all these years and the things we were able to do during all these years. And I am looking forward to make some more noise in the upcoming years. We do not rehearse very often, maybe 12 times each year. But when we rehearse, we make new songs and we record them immediately. That’s the way we work.

V: agathocles乐队与世界上太多经典乐队合作，并发行了太多著名唱片的专辑。您如何与这些乐队联系来发行splt专辑？您是如何与这些著名唱片公司合作发行专辑的？您能谈谈这些过程吗？

The agathocles band has collaborated with too many classic bands in the world, and also released albums with too many famous labels. How did you get in touch with these bands to publish splt albums? How did you collaborate with these famous labels to release albums? Can you talk about these processes?

J: 是的，我们已经录制了许多唱片，有些唱片我比其他唱片更喜欢，但仍然很难选择我最喜欢的唱片。每次录制都会唤起我们录制时的回忆。因此，如果您知道我的意思，那么所有这些录音都像一本“有声读物”。他们调出记忆并捕捉录制期间的时刻。这就是为什么声音和歌曲结构会随时变化的原因。歌词也会随时间变化。它显示了我录制时的心情，并且我的心情由于情况，当时正在发生的事情，整个生活等等而改变。我还没有算完所有的发行，太多了，哈哈哈。但是一位朋友告诉我，如果您还计算每个发行版的所有不同版本（例如不同的乙烯基颜色，其他国家/地区的不同版本……），则大约有900个发行版。

Yes, we have done many recordings, and some I like more than the others, but still, it is difficult to choose which one I like most. Every recording brings up memories from the times when we have recorded them. So all these recordings are something like an “audio photo book” , if you know what I mean. They bring up memories and capture the moment of the recording period. That’s also why the sound and songstructures change from moment to moment. And also the lyrics change from moment to moment. It shows my mood of the time of recording, and my mood changes because of situations, the things that are going around on at that moment, life in general,…. I have not count all our releases, there are too many, hahaha. But a friend told me that, if you also count all the different versions of each release (like different vinyl colors, different version in other country…), there are approximately 900 releases around.

V: Agathocles乐队的音乐主题是反法西斯主义，动物保护，环境等。除了反法西斯主义外，还会有许多乐队使用这些主题。关于环境和动物保护，我认为您是第一支grindcore乐队，您如何考虑将它们用作音乐主题？这和你的工作有关吗？你的乐队成员做什么？

The musical themes of the agathocles band are about anti-fascism, animal protection, environment and so on. In addition to anti-fascism there will be many bands using these themes. Regarding the environment and animal protection, I think you are the first A grindcore band, how did you think about adopting these as musical themes? Is this related to your work? What do your band members do?

J: 就像我之前说的那样，MINCE CORE是具有社会和政治意识的grindcore，因此我们的歌词处理反授权，生态，自治等问题。...Nils担任贫困人口的社会工作者，Koen从事贫困人群的社会工作。钢结构，我在精神病学验证中心担任治疗师/教练。

Like I said earlier, MINCE CORE is socially and politically aware grindcore, so our lyrics deal with things like anti-authority, ecology, autonomy,…… Nils is working as a social worker for people in poverty, Koen is working in the steel construction and I am working as a therapist/coach in a psychiatric revalidation center.

V: 我相信，作为一支优秀的老乐队，您一定参加了许多音乐节或现场表演。哪些音乐节或现场表演给您留下了深刻的印象？我认为您一定去过很多国家并且已经游览过。哪个国家/地区的粉丝印象最深刻？您想来中国旅游吗？

I believe that as an excellent old band, you must have participated in many music festivals or live performances. Which music festivals or live performances have impressed you? I think you must have been to many countries and have toured. Which countries have the fans that impressed you the most? Do you want to come to China for a tour?

J: 是的，我们在许多国家/地区都参加过演出，我们在不同的大陆上都进行过巡回演出……我仍然想在许多国家/地区参加比赛，但是时间是个问题，而且我的年龄越来越大，之后需要更多的时间来恢复旅行。我们最后一次旅行是在智利的巴塔哥尼亚和西班牙的北部。我想在中美洲，洪都拉斯，危地马拉，哥斯达黎加等国家进行旅行。嘿，是的，在中国的旅行也将非常有趣。

Yes, we have played in many countries, we have done tours on different continents… I still have many countries/places in mind to play, but time is a problem and also, I am getting older and need more time to recover after a tour. Last tours we did were in Patagonia, Chile and one in the north of Spain. I would like to make a tour in Central America, countries such as Honduras, Guatemala, Costa Rica,….. Hey yes, a tour in China would also be very interesting.

V:Agathocles的早期经典专辑已经重新发行，并带有许多唱片公司。您认为在这些重新发行的专辑中哪个唱片最好？

Agathocles’ early classic albums have been re-released with many labels. Which label do you think is the best among these re-released albums?

J: 哪个标签重新发布AGATHOCLES记录并不重要，最重要的是它们已在世界各地发布，因此该记录可在世界各地使用。

It does not matter what label re-releases AGATHOCLES records, the most important is that they are released in different parts of the world so that the records are available everywhere in the world.

V: agathocles乐队现已与波兰Selfmadegod唱片公司签约。这是一个伟大的唱片公司，已经发行了许多经典专辑，并为您发行了许多专辑。为什么选择此标签？您认为他们对您乐队的工作感到满意吗？

The agathocles band is now signed with the Polish Selfmadegod Records. This is a great label that has released many classic albums and has released many albums for you. Why did you choose this label? Do you think they are satisfied with your band's work?

J: 我们没有带任何标签的签名。我们不签名，不与合同合作。这对我们很重要。我们以友谊为基础。来自波兰的自我上帝记录是老朋友。 SMG RECORDS发行的第一张专辑是2000年发行的AGATHOCLES“服务于..要保护”磁带版本的专辑。从那时起，我们一直在共同努力。 Karol是一个伟大的人，我们喜欢和他一起工作。但是所有没有合同。另一个很棒的标签是德国的ANIMATE RECORDS。 ANIMATE RECORDS将发行一系列8 x 12英寸的LP，并且每个LP都将完成我们多年来所做的许多AG（拆分）7” Eps的完整录制会话。 LP将在1990年至2003年期间录制唱片。现在已经发行了前4个LP。其他4个也将在今年发布。

We are NOT signed with any label. We DO NOT SIGN, we DO NOT WORK WITH CONTRACTS. This is important for us. We work on basis of friendship. SELF MADE GOD RECORDS from Poland are old friends. The first release that SMG RECORDS did was the AGATHOCLES “To serve..To protect” album on tape version, back in 2000, I think that was. Since then, we have been keep on working together. Karol is a great person and we like work with him. But all WITHOUT contracts. Another great label is ANIMATE RECORDS from Germany. ANIMATE RECORDS will release a series of 8 x 12”LPs and each LP will have complete recording sessions of the many AG (split) 7”Eps we have done during the years. The LPs will have recording sessions from 1990 until 2003. The first 4 LP’s are already released now. The other 4 will be released this year too.

V: 您对中国一无所知吗？你了解中国文化吗？你知道中国有哪些乐队吗？

Do you know anything about China? Do you understand Chinese culture? Do you know which bands from China?

J: 我很想去中国玩。那将非常有趣。不，我对中国乐队/场景/文化了解不多。一个中国唱片公司在中国发行了一张AGATHOCLES CD，但仅此而已。哦，是的，我在欧洲看到一个中国乐队演奏，我喜欢他们，但我不记得他们的名字了。

I would love to visit and play in China. That would be very interesting. And no, I don’t know much about Chinese bands/scene/culture. One Chinese label released an AGATHOCLES CD in China, but that’s all. Oh yes, I saw a Chinese band play in Europe and I liked them, but I don’t remember their name.

V: 由于今年COVID-19的严重流行，您是否还被迫停止了许多音乐节？您现在有什么新工作要做吗？例如，录制一些新歌曲并发行更多专辑？

Due to the severe epidemic of COVID-19 this year, have you also been forced to stop many music festivals? Do you have any new work to do now? For example, record some new songs and release more albums?

J: 由于该病毒，没有演出或巡演，所有活动均被取消。真的很伤心。但是我有新的录音需要处理，因此我现在可以花些时间来处理这些录音。

Because of the virus, no gigs or tours ofcourse, all is cancelled. Really sad. But I have new recordings to work on, so I can use the time now to work on these recordings.

V: 最后您对中国球迷有什么话要说？

Do you have anything to say to Chinese fans in the end?

J: 感谢您接受我们的采访，并为我们提供了更多的空间。祝您事业好运。为所有阅读者欢呼。继续支持DIY乐队，并为主流商业音乐业务创造替代方案。我知道，如果我们继续建立世界各地志趣相投的朋友网络，我们所有人都能做到。百事通，而不是时尚！提高原始噪音朋克！

Thanks for this interview and for giving us space in your zine. Good luck with the zine. Cheers to all people who are reading. Keep on supporting DIY-bands and create an alternative for mainstream commercial music business. I know we all can do that, if we keep on creating networks of friends and like minded all over the world. MINCECORE FOR PASSION, NOT FOR FASHION ! UP THE RAW NOISE PUNKS !

Agathocles乐队主要作品（由于作品太多只放正式专辑其他的在相册中发布）

Agathocles - Theatric Symbolisation of Life