滚石访谈-麦当娜解析6首作品 和“REBEL HEART”
在这个访谈中，你将会了解到麦当娜6首圣诞礼物的创作实质！
“过去的一年中，麦当娜在Instagram上向粉丝们更新着她准备第十三张专辑的合作动态（Nicki Minaj、Avicii、Diplo）和灵感（马拉维的孩子们、Miley Cyrus、写着“我在你们那需要更多钱和权力，但请少废话”）。但上周，她的创造过程却被13首被认为是“未完成的小样”的歌曲的泄露打断了。为了应对潜在的灾难，她的团队当机立断：完成并迅速在iTunes上发行六首歌，并决定于2015年三月初发行整张大碟，名叫《背叛之心（Rebel Heart）》。
这几首歌在iTunes上发行后，麦当娜在41个国家的数字音乐排行榜上登顶冠军——从美国和以色列到俄罗斯和菲律宾。之后她与《滚石》杂志进行了关于这次意想不到的发行背后的故事。”
It's safe to presume you've had a busy couple of days?
Oh my goodness. So busy. Let's talk about something good.
Q:相信你最近几天忙坏了吧？
A:天惹，别提了，聊点好的吧。
The album focuses on two themes: listening to your heart and being arebel. When you sat down to write, were you guided by these ideas above anymusical plans?
I never sit down and consciously think I want to write a song about asubject. Music leads me to ideas and to where I want to go emotionally. When Ifirst started, I was writing with Avicii's team of writers and they wereseparated into two different groups. One of them had a much more upbeatapproach to songwriting, sonically speaking, and the other team chose darkerchords. The music leads me – so I get lost in the sound of the music, and thatcreates a kind of emotional palate. I found as I would look back at my songsand witness what I had written, I was coming from two very distinct places.That happened organically, not planned out, and I was observing, "Oh,these are two very strong sides of me that I need to express."
Q:这张专辑有两个主题：倾听你的心，和做一个背叛者。当你坐下来创作时，是这些在音乐计划之上的概念指引着你吗？
A:我从不会坐下来有意识地去想我要写什么主题的歌。音乐将引领我到我情感倾向的概念去。当我最初开始时，我与Avicii的团队一同创作，他们由两个独立的团体组成。从声音上说，其中一个在创作上偏于积极向上，另一个团队则喜欢选用较暗色彩的和弦。音乐引领着我——我在音乐中沉醉，接着我有了一种情感上的感觉。我发现我再回首审视我写过的歌，仿佛来自两个完全不同的地方。这件事有机地发生了，没有计划，然后我发现，“哦，原来我有两个强烈的概念需要去表达”。
So decisions about who you trust to guide you, musically, are clearlyquite crucial.
Yeah. And sometimes in the writing phase of the music, there are somepeople who I really felt a connection to, just as human beings, and felt theyunderstood me as a songwriter and a person, so those people were easier for meto write with. Writing songs, you have to be vulnerable, you have to not beafraid to express yourself and to say things or share. It's almost like writingyour diary in front of somebody and reading it out loud. Some people made mefeel comfortable and I felt connected to them and other people seemed verystrange to me. It was almost like an acting exercise, you know, just puttingmyself in a room and letting ideas flow even if I didn't feel so connected tothe people.
Q:所以你信任谁来在音乐上引领你是非常关键的决定。
A:是的。有时在音乐的创作阶段，我会觉得有些人让我觉得紧密相连，他们会明白作为创作者和人的我，所以这些人对我来说是创作的上佳伙伴。写歌时，你必须要变得脆弱，你不能害怕展现自己、分享想法。这简直就像在别人面前写你的日记并大声朗读一般。有些人让我觉得舒服和默契，有些人则让我觉得非常奇怪。这就像个表演实践，我就把自己放在房间里，让思想游走，有时我甚至感到与人们没什么联系。
"Living for Love" is a pretty triumphant breakupsong.
It's a breakup song. [Laughs]
Q:《Living for Love》是一首美丽而成功的分手之歌。
A:对，是一首分手之歌。（笑）
But it's not a mopey breakup song.
The thing is, lots of people write about being in love and being happy orthey write about having a broken heart and being inconsolable. But nobodywrites about having a broken heart and being hopeful and triumphant afterwards.So I thought, how can I do this? I didn't want to share the sentiment of beinga victim. This scenario devastated me, but it just made me stronger.
Q:但它不是一首消沉的分手之歌。
A:事情是这样的，很多人写他们恋爱中的快乐或者分手的伤心。但没有人写即便分手也充满着日后会幸福的希望。因此我想，我要怎么样？我不想分享做为受害者的情绪。即便这些情节会打击我，但只会让我更加坚强。
Q:据说有位过气女歌手在网上泄露了您的专辑，您对比有什么看法
A:I don't know her.
The track marries a classic house-y vibe with some of Diplo's verysynthetic sounds. Did you encourage him to push it a little bit?
Oh, I don't ever have to encourage Diplo to push anything. In fact, I haveto encourage him to tone things down sometimes. He's a turn-up man. In fact, Ithink "Living for Love" is probably one of his more mellowproductions.
Q:这首歌结合了经典的House氛围与Diplo的某种合成器音色。是你激励他激进一些吗？
A:噢，我从不需要激励Diplo激进。事实上，我有时必须鼓励他稍微缓和一点。他是个热情高涨的人。事实上，我认为《Living for Love》大概是他比较柔和的作品。
"Devil Pray" is at risk of being misunderstood as a songencouraging or condemning drugs, but it's more about a search for spirituality,correct?
I don't think when people are experimenting with drugs they're actuallyconsciously saying to themselves, I want to get closer to God. I think it's aprimal thing, a more inexplicable thing that happens where I think the feelingpeople have when they're high is plugging into the universe and appreciatingthings or seeing details that they otherwise may have missed, or feeling acertain kind of euphoric joy. Ultimately those feelings never last, because thedrugs wear off and then there's the aftereffect. Whenever you syntheticallymake yourself feel euphoria there's going to be the crash. I'm certainly notjudging people who take drugs or saying "don't do drugs," however,I'm saying you can do all of these things to connect to a higher level, butultimately you're going to be lost. People who are getting high areinstinctively also trying to connect to a higher level of consciousness, butare doing it in a way that will not sustain them.
Q:《Devil’s Pray》很可能被误解为鼓励或反对嗑药的歌，它更多地是一首寻求灵性的歌，对吗？
A:我认为人们在嗑药时他们是无意识地对自己说，我要接近上帝。我觉得这是件原始的事情，是一件难以言说的事情。我认为当人们感到过瘾的时候，他们是深入了宇宙，感知到了事物，或看到了他们平常遗漏的细节，或感到了某种愉悦。根本上来说这些感觉难以持久，因为药力会消散，还会有后遗症。当你人工地让自己感到疯狂愉悦，就会由这样的碰撞。我绝不是在审判嗑药的人或者说“不要嗑药”，相反，我想说你可以做这些事去达到一个更高的阶段，但最终你会迷失。那些人本能地试图达到感知的更高阶段，但他们的方法注定他们难以如愿。
There's also a message of seeking spirituality via togetherness and notbeing isolated.
Yeah, and that's another subtle message of the song, andyou really do have to pay attention to the lyrics, and I hope people do overtime. The way we're going to change the world, or the way we're going toultimately feel joy, is through unity. I'm certainly not encouraging religiousbehavior; when I say people are thinking in a religious way, I think they'rethinking about rules and dogma and laws that separate. When I say spirituality,I mean a consciousness that has an understanding that we are all in thistogether, that we are all one. We have to find a way to feel joy and to bringjoy to the world together. That ultimately is with consciousness, not drugs.
Q:这还有一种讯息，想通过相聚、不孤立来寻求灵性。
A:对，还有其他微妙的信息，你一定要注意歌词，我一直希望人们能注意。我们想改变世界或者最终希望得到快乐的方法，要通过相聚来达成。这不是鼓励宗教的行为，当我说人们在用宗教思维思考时，我认为他们在思考规则、教条、法律这些让人们分开的东西。当我说灵性时，我是在说一种我们同在一处、融为一体的觉悟与理解。我们必须找到一种方法去感受快乐、把快乐带给世界。这最终应该用觉悟去达到，而非毒品。
We're at a critical moment — a weird and scary time — that doesn't seemfar from the fallen world of "Ghosttown."
Yes, we are, and that song is kind of looking at theworld in a way, seeing civilization collapse around us, for lack of a betterword. And at the end of the day, if we run out of oil and we don't haveelectricity and we don't have all the modern conveniences, and we have nophones and computers, all we're going to have is each other, is humans. Andthat song's about recognizing that.
Q:奇怪而恐怖的评论时间到！《Ghosttown》似乎是在说一个堕落的世界？
\A:是的。这首歌某种意义上是在用这种方式看世界：看到文明在我们周围崩溃，再也没什么好的词语。最终，如果我们没有了油和电，没有了现代所有的便利，没有电话和电脑，我们就只能拥有彼此，只有人。这首歌是关于这样的认知。
Still, it's a comforting song, it's not a frightful or fearful song.
No. Again, hopeful. Looking at the destruction and seeinghope. And that's what a lot of my songs are about on this record.
Q:仍然，这是一首直面现实的歌，不是惊吓或害怕的歌。
A:对。再说一次，它充满希望。目睹破坏，然后看到希望。这张唱片中我的很多歌曲都关于这个。
If "Living for Love" is the inspiring breakup song,"Unapologetic Bitch" is the "fuck you."
Yeah. [Laughs] But it's like, fuck you, I'm going to have fun. Youthink you're going to ruin my life and you think that it's over for me, butguess what? It's not. Life goes on.
Q:如果《Living for Love》是鼓舞人心的分手歌，那么《Unapologetic Bitch》就是“草泥马”。
A:对。（笑）但它就像，草泥马，但是我会快乐。你认为你将会毁了我的生活，我将一筹莫展，但看看发生了什么？并没有。生活还在继续。
Diplo, who produced that track, plays an interesting role in music rightnow, traveling the world collecting sounds and helping other cultures makesense of them. How did you two relate?
You know when you meet somebody and you work with themand you recognize that you both look at life the same way? I'm one of thosepeople, I travel the world also and I engage in other cultures, and I absorband see the beauty in other culture from many different perspectives — throughart, through literature, through music — and reference a lot of those thingsthat inspire me through my work. And I think Diplo does the same thing. So werecognized kindred spirits. When we got together, he didn't know that side ofme and I didn't know that side of him, so again, not a discussion that we hadper se, just more about hey, check this out? Did you hear this? Listen to thistrack. Do you like this group? Playing each other music that we loved and justrecognizing we both enjoyed a lot of the same things, and then just getting towork.
Q:Diplo，那个只做了这首歌，现在在音乐中扮演着有趣角色，寻访世界各地收集声音，帮助其他文化建立意义的人，你们俩是怎么合作的？
A:你知道那种你认识某人，与他工作后发现你们俩用同一种方式看世界的感觉吗？我是这种人。我同样寻访世界各地，加入其他文化，从各种不同方面（艺术、文学、音乐）中吸收、欣赏其他文化中的美，在我的作品中激发出许多东西。我认为Diplo也做着一样的事。因此我们发现我们精神相似。当我们在一起时，我们互相不知道对方的情况，而且，我们也不会一直讨论，更多的是，嘿，看看这个？你听到这个了吗？听听这首歌。你喜欢这个团队吗？演奏我们各自喜欢的音乐，发现我们喜欢相同的东西，然后继续工作。
How does an idea for "Illuminati" come together when you'reworking with Kanye West?
"Illuminati " was a song I'd written back inMarch or April. People are always using the word Illuminati but they're alwaysreferencing it in an incorrect way. People often accuse me of being a member ofthe Illuminati and I think in today's pop culture the Illuminati is perceivedas a group of powerful, successful people who are working behind the scenes tocontrol the universe. Not people with consciousness, not people who areenlightened. So people were accusing me of being a member of the Illuminati,and I kept going, wait – so first I had to figure out what that meant.
Q:在你与Kanye West合作时，《Illuminati》（光明会）的概念是怎么来的？
A: 《Illuminati》是我三月或四月时写的。人们一直使用Illuminati这个词但他们将它理解错了。人们经常谴责我是光明会的一员，我认为在今天的流行文化中，光明会让人觉得是一群有力量的、成功的人们在幕后操纵世界，而不是觉悟的、有灵性的人。因此人们谴责我是光明会的一员，因此我觉得我应该指出它的真正内涵。
Do you Google these things, because it's quite amusing.
Yeah. But the thing is, I know who the real Illuminatiare, and I know where that word comes from. The real Illuminati were a group ofscientists, artists, philosophers, writers, who came about in what is referredto as the Age of Enlightenment, after the Dark Ages, when there was no writingand no art and no creativity and no spirituality, and life was really at astandstill. And right after that, everything flourished. So we had people likeShakespeare and Leonardo Da Vinci and Michaelangelo and Isaac Newton, and allthese great minds and great thinkers, and they were called Illuminati.
Q:你会用google搜索这些吗？它非常有趣。
A:会，但事情是这样的，我知道真正的光明会是怎样的，我也知道这个词哪儿来。真正的光明会是一群科学家、艺术家、哲学家、作家，他们来自在蒙昧时代之后的启蒙时代。蒙昧时代是一个没有写作没有艺术没有创造没有灵性的时代，生命真的像停止了一般。在那之后，百废待兴，因此我们有莎士比亚、达芬·奇、米开朗基罗、牛顿这样的人，这些伟大的思想者和思考者，就叫做光明会。
Because they were illuminating consciousness.
Yes, to go to the root of the word, they wereilluminating people. It had nothing to do with money and power. Of course theywere powerful, because they influenced people. But their goal was to inspireand enlighten. So when people refer to me as a member of the Illuminati, Ialways want to say thank you. Thank you for putting me in that category. Butbefore I can say thank you, I feel like I had to write a song about what Ibelieve the Illuminati to be, and what it isn't.
When I played a lot of my songs that were unproduced for Kanye, that songresonated with him. He loved the melody, and he was actually jumping up anddown on the soundboard. He literally stood on top of the mixing board — we wereworried he was going to hit his head on the ceiling, but he didn't. He ended upbeing very excited about that track, and then he added his spin to it,musically, and I love it. To me, he elevated the lyrics with the music. It'slike a siren, alerting people.
Q:因为他们是启蒙的意识。
A:对，回到世界的根源上来说，他们是启蒙者。这和钱、权力无关。当然他们很有权力，因为他们影响着人们。但他们的目的是为了激发和启蒙。所以被当做是光明会的一员时，我只想说谢谢。谢谢把我放在那一类人中间。但在我说感谢之前，我觉得我必须写一首歌，关于我相信的什么是属于光明会的，什么不是。
When you work with Nicki Minaj on a track like "Bitch I'mMadonna," do you give her guidance or let her go wherever she desires?
Whenever we work together she always sits with me andlistens to the song, and says "tell me what this song is about toyou." She's very methodical in her thinking. We talk about it, she writesdown words that I say describing what the song's about and the sentiment thatI'd like her to get out there, and then she goes away and she works on it. Shewrites it, she comes back. She does a version of it, we talk about it. It's aback and forth until she gets it right. It's a total collaboration.
Q:当你和Nicki Minaj合作《Bitch I'm Madonna》这样的作品时，你是给她一点方向呢还是让她随心发挥？
A:我们合作时她总是和我坐在一起，听着这首歌，说“告诉我这首歌对你意味着什么”。她有很系统的构思。我们谈论的过程中，她记下我对这首歌的描述和我希望她表达的情感，然后她独自去完成。她写完了，她回来。她写出一个版本，我们讨论，就此往复直到她找到答案。这是真正的合作。
You said you wanted every song on this album to stand on its own withoutproduction, to be able to strip down each track to its acoustic root and stillhave it work. Was that something you'd thought about on past albums?
No, I didn't. A lot of times I just thought about sounds. Or I want to make adance record, or I want to write a ballad. This time I really thought — this isall part of my Armageddon thinking right now — the world is changing and forme, it's like, OK, what does it all come down to at the end of the day? Itcomes down to the songs.
Q:你说你想让这张专辑的每一首歌即便没有制作都能自圆其说，都能在玻璃到只有原声的版本还依然有说服力。这是来源于你对以往作品的思考吗？
A:不。很多时候我只是思考着声音。我想做一张舞曲，我想写一首抒情歌。但这次我真的认为，这是我所有现在的想法。这世界在变，但对我来说，它就像，OK，它归根结底究竟是什么？它归根结底是这些歌。
If you're alone at the end of the world, can you just perform the songs?
Yes. If it's just me and the guitar, can I still do it?All the songs, I needed to be able to break them down on the most simple leveland be able to impart what I have to say with my voice and a guitar.
Q:如果在世界末日你独自一人，你会只是演奏这些歌吗？
A:会。如果只有我和一把吉他，我还会这样做吗？所有的歌我都会演奏，我需要将他们分解到最简单的阶段，使我能够用我的声音和一把吉他来说出我想说的。
Have you started thinking about reinventing these songs for tour?
I'm thinking about it. Right now, the deadline of gettingthis music out for iTunes was a 50-yard dash.
Q:重新制作这些歌了吗？
A:我在想。现在，我得全力冲刺让这些歌在iTunes上准时上线了。
The songs went Number One in 41 countries – that's got to feel good. Anddemonstrate true fans are still willing to pay for the music.
Yeah. They're extremely [loyal] and I'm really supergrateful for that.
Q:这些歌在41个国家登顶了，让人觉得很好。这证明真正的粉丝还是愿意为音乐花钱的。
A:对。他们特别好，我也特别感激他们。
来源：欧美贴吧粉
“过去的一年中，麦当娜在Instagram上向粉丝们更新着她准备第十三张专辑的合作动态（Nicki Minaj、Avicii、Diplo）和灵感（马拉维的孩子们、Miley Cyrus、写着“我在你们那需要更多钱和权力，但请少废话”）。但上周，她的创造过程却被13首被认为是“未完成的小样”的歌曲的泄露打断了。为了应对潜在的灾难，她的团队当机立断：完成并迅速在iTunes上发行六首歌，并决定于2015年三月初发行整张大碟，名叫《背叛之心（Rebel Heart）》。
这几首歌在iTunes上发行后，麦当娜在41个国家的数字音乐排行榜上登顶冠军——从美国和以色列到俄罗斯和菲律宾。之后她与《滚石》杂志进行了关于这次意想不到的发行背后的故事。”
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It's safe to presume you've had a busy couple of days?
Oh my goodness. So busy. Let's talk about something good.
Q:相信你最近几天忙坏了吧？
A:天惹，别提了，聊点好的吧。
The album focuses on two themes: listening to your heart and being arebel. When you sat down to write, were you guided by these ideas above anymusical plans?
I never sit down and consciously think I want to write a song about asubject. Music leads me to ideas and to where I want to go emotionally. When Ifirst started, I was writing with Avicii's team of writers and they wereseparated into two different groups. One of them had a much more upbeatapproach to songwriting, sonically speaking, and the other team chose darkerchords. The music leads me – so I get lost in the sound of the music, and thatcreates a kind of emotional palate. I found as I would look back at my songsand witness what I had written, I was coming from two very distinct places.That happened organically, not planned out, and I was observing, "Oh,these are two very strong sides of me that I need to express."
Q:这张专辑有两个主题：倾听你的心，和做一个背叛者。当你坐下来创作时，是这些在音乐计划之上的概念指引着你吗？
A:我从不会坐下来有意识地去想我要写什么主题的歌。音乐将引领我到我情感倾向的概念去。当我最初开始时，我与Avicii的团队一同创作，他们由两个独立的团体组成。从声音上说，其中一个在创作上偏于积极向上，另一个团队则喜欢选用较暗色彩的和弦。音乐引领着我——我在音乐中沉醉，接着我有了一种情感上的感觉。我发现我再回首审视我写过的歌，仿佛来自两个完全不同的地方。这件事有机地发生了，没有计划，然后我发现，“哦，原来我有两个强烈的概念需要去表达”。
So decisions about who you trust to guide you, musically, are clearlyquite crucial.
Yeah. And sometimes in the writing phase of the music, there are somepeople who I really felt a connection to, just as human beings, and felt theyunderstood me as a songwriter and a person, so those people were easier for meto write with. Writing songs, you have to be vulnerable, you have to not beafraid to express yourself and to say things or share. It's almost like writingyour diary in front of somebody and reading it out loud. Some people made mefeel comfortable and I felt connected to them and other people seemed verystrange to me. It was almost like an acting exercise, you know, just puttingmyself in a room and letting ideas flow even if I didn't feel so connected tothe people.
Q:所以你信任谁来在音乐上引领你是非常关键的决定。
A:是的。有时在音乐的创作阶段，我会觉得有些人让我觉得紧密相连，他们会明白作为创作者和人的我，所以这些人对我来说是创作的上佳伙伴。写歌时，你必须要变得脆弱，你不能害怕展现自己、分享想法。这简直就像在别人面前写你的日记并大声朗读一般。有些人让我觉得舒服和默契，有些人则让我觉得非常奇怪。这就像个表演实践，我就把自己放在房间里，让思想游走，有时我甚至感到与人们没什么联系。
"Living for Love" is a pretty triumphant breakupsong.
It's a breakup song. [Laughs]
Q:《Living for Love》是一首美丽而成功的分手之歌。
A:对，是一首分手之歌。（笑）
But it's not a mopey breakup song.
The thing is, lots of people write about being in love and being happy orthey write about having a broken heart and being inconsolable. But nobodywrites about having a broken heart and being hopeful and triumphant afterwards.So I thought, how can I do this? I didn't want to share the sentiment of beinga victim. This scenario devastated me, but it just made me stronger.
Q:但它不是一首消沉的分手之歌。
A:事情是这样的，很多人写他们恋爱中的快乐或者分手的伤心。但没有人写即便分手也充满着日后会幸福的希望。因此我想，我要怎么样？我不想分享做为受害者的情绪。即便这些情节会打击我，但只会让我更加坚强。
Q:据说有位过气女歌手在网上泄露了您的专辑，您对比有什么看法
A:I don't know her.
The track marries a classic house-y vibe with some of Diplo's verysynthetic sounds. Did you encourage him to push it a little bit?
Oh, I don't ever have to encourage Diplo to push anything. In fact, I haveto encourage him to tone things down sometimes. He's a turn-up man. In fact, Ithink "Living for Love" is probably one of his more mellowproductions.
Q:这首歌结合了经典的House氛围与Diplo的某种合成器音色。是你激励他激进一些吗？
A:噢，我从不需要激励Diplo激进。事实上，我有时必须鼓励他稍微缓和一点。他是个热情高涨的人。事实上，我认为《Living for Love》大概是他比较柔和的作品。
"Devil Pray" is at risk of being misunderstood as a songencouraging or condemning drugs, but it's more about a search for spirituality,correct?
I don't think when people are experimenting with drugs they're actuallyconsciously saying to themselves, I want to get closer to God. I think it's aprimal thing, a more inexplicable thing that happens where I think the feelingpeople have when they're high is plugging into the universe and appreciatingthings or seeing details that they otherwise may have missed, or feeling acertain kind of euphoric joy. Ultimately those feelings never last, because thedrugs wear off and then there's the aftereffect. Whenever you syntheticallymake yourself feel euphoria there's going to be the crash. I'm certainly notjudging people who take drugs or saying "don't do drugs," however,I'm saying you can do all of these things to connect to a higher level, butultimately you're going to be lost. People who are getting high areinstinctively also trying to connect to a higher level of consciousness, butare doing it in a way that will not sustain them.
Q:《Devil’s Pray》很可能被误解为鼓励或反对嗑药的歌，它更多地是一首寻求灵性的歌，对吗？
A:我认为人们在嗑药时他们是无意识地对自己说，我要接近上帝。我觉得这是件原始的事情，是一件难以言说的事情。我认为当人们感到过瘾的时候，他们是深入了宇宙，感知到了事物，或看到了他们平常遗漏的细节，或感到了某种愉悦。根本上来说这些感觉难以持久，因为药力会消散，还会有后遗症。当你人工地让自己感到疯狂愉悦，就会由这样的碰撞。我绝不是在审判嗑药的人或者说“不要嗑药”，相反，我想说你可以做这些事去达到一个更高的阶段，但最终你会迷失。那些人本能地试图达到感知的更高阶段，但他们的方法注定他们难以如愿。
There's also a message of seeking spirituality via togetherness and notbeing isolated.
Yeah, and that's another subtle message of the song, andyou really do have to pay attention to the lyrics, and I hope people do overtime. The way we're going to change the world, or the way we're going toultimately feel joy, is through unity. I'm certainly not encouraging religiousbehavior; when I say people are thinking in a religious way, I think they'rethinking about rules and dogma and laws that separate. When I say spirituality,I mean a consciousness that has an understanding that we are all in thistogether, that we are all one. We have to find a way to feel joy and to bringjoy to the world together. That ultimately is with consciousness, not drugs.
Q:这还有一种讯息，想通过相聚、不孤立来寻求灵性。
A:对，还有其他微妙的信息，你一定要注意歌词，我一直希望人们能注意。我们想改变世界或者最终希望得到快乐的方法，要通过相聚来达成。这不是鼓励宗教的行为，当我说人们在用宗教思维思考时，我认为他们在思考规则、教条、法律这些让人们分开的东西。当我说灵性时，我是在说一种我们同在一处、融为一体的觉悟与理解。我们必须找到一种方法去感受快乐、把快乐带给世界。这最终应该用觉悟去达到，而非毒品。
We're at a critical moment — a weird and scary time — that doesn't seemfar from the fallen world of "Ghosttown."
Yes, we are, and that song is kind of looking at theworld in a way, seeing civilization collapse around us, for lack of a betterword. And at the end of the day, if we run out of oil and we don't haveelectricity and we don't have all the modern conveniences, and we have nophones and computers, all we're going to have is each other, is humans. Andthat song's about recognizing that.
Q:奇怪而恐怖的评论时间到！《Ghosttown》似乎是在说一个堕落的世界？
\A:是的。这首歌某种意义上是在用这种方式看世界：看到文明在我们周围崩溃，再也没什么好的词语。最终，如果我们没有了油和电，没有了现代所有的便利，没有电话和电脑，我们就只能拥有彼此，只有人。这首歌是关于这样的认知。
Still, it's a comforting song, it's not a frightful or fearful song.
No. Again, hopeful. Looking at the destruction and seeinghope. And that's what a lot of my songs are about on this record.
Q:仍然，这是一首直面现实的歌，不是惊吓或害怕的歌。
A:对。再说一次，它充满希望。目睹破坏，然后看到希望。这张唱片中我的很多歌曲都关于这个。
If "Living for Love" is the inspiring breakup song,"Unapologetic Bitch" is the "fuck you."
Yeah. [Laughs] But it's like, fuck you, I'm going to have fun. Youthink you're going to ruin my life and you think that it's over for me, butguess what? It's not. Life goes on.
Q:如果《Living for Love》是鼓舞人心的分手歌，那么《Unapologetic Bitch》就是“草泥马”。
A:对。（笑）但它就像，草泥马，但是我会快乐。你认为你将会毁了我的生活，我将一筹莫展，但看看发生了什么？并没有。生活还在继续。
Diplo, who produced that track, plays an interesting role in music rightnow, traveling the world collecting sounds and helping other cultures makesense of them. How did you two relate?
You know when you meet somebody and you work with themand you recognize that you both look at life the same way? I'm one of thosepeople, I travel the world also and I engage in other cultures, and I absorband see the beauty in other culture from many different perspectives — throughart, through literature, through music — and reference a lot of those thingsthat inspire me through my work. And I think Diplo does the same thing. So werecognized kindred spirits. When we got together, he didn't know that side ofme and I didn't know that side of him, so again, not a discussion that we hadper se, just more about hey, check this out? Did you hear this? Listen to thistrack. Do you like this group? Playing each other music that we loved and justrecognizing we both enjoyed a lot of the same things, and then just getting towork.
Q:Diplo，那个只做了这首歌，现在在音乐中扮演着有趣角色，寻访世界各地收集声音，帮助其他文化建立意义的人，你们俩是怎么合作的？
A:你知道那种你认识某人，与他工作后发现你们俩用同一种方式看世界的感觉吗？我是这种人。我同样寻访世界各地，加入其他文化，从各种不同方面（艺术、文学、音乐）中吸收、欣赏其他文化中的美，在我的作品中激发出许多东西。我认为Diplo也做着一样的事。因此我们发现我们精神相似。当我们在一起时，我们互相不知道对方的情况，而且，我们也不会一直讨论，更多的是，嘿，看看这个？你听到这个了吗？听听这首歌。你喜欢这个团队吗？演奏我们各自喜欢的音乐，发现我们喜欢相同的东西，然后继续工作。
How does an idea for "Illuminati" come together when you'reworking with Kanye West?
"Illuminati " was a song I'd written back inMarch or April. People are always using the word Illuminati but they're alwaysreferencing it in an incorrect way. People often accuse me of being a member ofthe Illuminati and I think in today's pop culture the Illuminati is perceivedas a group of powerful, successful people who are working behind the scenes tocontrol the universe. Not people with consciousness, not people who areenlightened. So people were accusing me of being a member of the Illuminati,and I kept going, wait – so first I had to figure out what that meant.
Q:在你与Kanye West合作时，《Illuminati》（光明会）的概念是怎么来的？
A: 《Illuminati》是我三月或四月时写的。人们一直使用Illuminati这个词但他们将它理解错了。人们经常谴责我是光明会的一员，我认为在今天的流行文化中，光明会让人觉得是一群有力量的、成功的人们在幕后操纵世界，而不是觉悟的、有灵性的人。因此人们谴责我是光明会的一员，因此我觉得我应该指出它的真正内涵。
Do you Google these things, because it's quite amusing.
Yeah. But the thing is, I know who the real Illuminatiare, and I know where that word comes from. The real Illuminati were a group ofscientists, artists, philosophers, writers, who came about in what is referredto as the Age of Enlightenment, after the Dark Ages, when there was no writingand no art and no creativity and no spirituality, and life was really at astandstill. And right after that, everything flourished. So we had people likeShakespeare and Leonardo Da Vinci and Michaelangelo and Isaac Newton, and allthese great minds and great thinkers, and they were called Illuminati.
Q:你会用google搜索这些吗？它非常有趣。
A:会，但事情是这样的，我知道真正的光明会是怎样的，我也知道这个词哪儿来。真正的光明会是一群科学家、艺术家、哲学家、作家，他们来自在蒙昧时代之后的启蒙时代。蒙昧时代是一个没有写作没有艺术没有创造没有灵性的时代，生命真的像停止了一般。在那之后，百废待兴，因此我们有莎士比亚、达芬·奇、米开朗基罗、牛顿这样的人，这些伟大的思想者和思考者，就叫做光明会。
Because they were illuminating consciousness.
Yes, to go to the root of the word, they wereilluminating people. It had nothing to do with money and power. Of course theywere powerful, because they influenced people. But their goal was to inspireand enlighten. So when people refer to me as a member of the Illuminati, Ialways want to say thank you. Thank you for putting me in that category. Butbefore I can say thank you, I feel like I had to write a song about what Ibelieve the Illuminati to be, and what it isn't.
When I played a lot of my songs that were unproduced for Kanye, that songresonated with him. He loved the melody, and he was actually jumping up anddown on the soundboard. He literally stood on top of the mixing board — we wereworried he was going to hit his head on the ceiling, but he didn't. He ended upbeing very excited about that track, and then he added his spin to it,musically, and I love it. To me, he elevated the lyrics with the music. It'slike a siren, alerting people.
Q:因为他们是启蒙的意识。
A:对，回到世界的根源上来说，他们是启蒙者。这和钱、权力无关。当然他们很有权力，因为他们影响着人们。但他们的目的是为了激发和启蒙。所以被当做是光明会的一员时，我只想说谢谢。谢谢把我放在那一类人中间。但在我说感谢之前，我觉得我必须写一首歌，关于我相信的什么是属于光明会的，什么不是。
When you work with Nicki Minaj on a track like "Bitch I'mMadonna," do you give her guidance or let her go wherever she desires?
Whenever we work together she always sits with me andlistens to the song, and says "tell me what this song is about toyou." She's very methodical in her thinking. We talk about it, she writesdown words that I say describing what the song's about and the sentiment thatI'd like her to get out there, and then she goes away and she works on it. Shewrites it, she comes back. She does a version of it, we talk about it. It's aback and forth until she gets it right. It's a total collaboration.
Q:当你和Nicki Minaj合作《Bitch I'm Madonna》这样的作品时，你是给她一点方向呢还是让她随心发挥？
A:我们合作时她总是和我坐在一起，听着这首歌，说“告诉我这首歌对你意味着什么”。她有很系统的构思。我们谈论的过程中，她记下我对这首歌的描述和我希望她表达的情感，然后她独自去完成。她写完了，她回来。她写出一个版本，我们讨论，就此往复直到她找到答案。这是真正的合作。
You said you wanted every song on this album to stand on its own withoutproduction, to be able to strip down each track to its acoustic root and stillhave it work. Was that something you'd thought about on past albums?
No, I didn't. A lot of times I just thought about sounds. Or I want to make adance record, or I want to write a ballad. This time I really thought — this isall part of my Armageddon thinking right now — the world is changing and forme, it's like, OK, what does it all come down to at the end of the day? Itcomes down to the songs.
Q:你说你想让这张专辑的每一首歌即便没有制作都能自圆其说，都能在玻璃到只有原声的版本还依然有说服力。这是来源于你对以往作品的思考吗？
A:不。很多时候我只是思考着声音。我想做一张舞曲，我想写一首抒情歌。但这次我真的认为，这是我所有现在的想法。这世界在变，但对我来说，它就像，OK，它归根结底究竟是什么？它归根结底是这些歌。
If you're alone at the end of the world, can you just perform the songs?
Yes. If it's just me and the guitar, can I still do it?All the songs, I needed to be able to break them down on the most simple leveland be able to impart what I have to say with my voice and a guitar.
Q:如果在世界末日你独自一人，你会只是演奏这些歌吗？
A:会。如果只有我和一把吉他，我还会这样做吗？所有的歌我都会演奏，我需要将他们分解到最简单的阶段，使我能够用我的声音和一把吉他来说出我想说的。
Have you started thinking about reinventing these songs for tour?
I'm thinking about it. Right now, the deadline of gettingthis music out for iTunes was a 50-yard dash.
Q:重新制作这些歌了吗？
A:我在想。现在，我得全力冲刺让这些歌在iTunes上准时上线了。
The songs went Number One in 41 countries – that's got to feel good. Anddemonstrate true fans are still willing to pay for the music.
Yeah. They're extremely [loyal] and I'm really supergrateful for that.
Q:这些歌在41个国家登顶了，让人觉得很好。这证明真正的粉丝还是愿意为音乐花钱的。
A:对。他们特别好，我也特别感激他们。
来源：欧美贴吧粉
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