我的学习与翻译--多样性与记忆：与彼特·卒姆托谈论建筑 （评论部分）
我读过卒姆托的《思考建筑》，颇为其思想与诗意着迷。卒姆托的建筑哲学往往与极简主义和现象学密不可分，其建构之诗学也是注重细节的瑞士建筑师中的翘楚。希望我的工作能让大家了解更多关于卒姆托和他的作品与思想。
还是那句话。欢迎交流探讨与指正。无论是翻译还是建筑学。
原帖地址：http://www.archdaily.com/85656/multiplicity-and-memory-talking-about-architecture-with-peter-zumthor/
原文与原文图片一切权利归属作者与AD。
多样性与记忆：与彼特·卒姆托谈论建筑
2010年11月
作者：尼克·萨耶
Multiplicity and Memory: Talking About Architecture with Peter Zumthor
NOV 2010
By Nico Saieh — Filed under: ArchDaily Interviews ,Featured , Peter Zumthor
Peter Zumthor - Courtesy of Marco Masetti（卒姆托，马克·马赛迪摄）
This interview was completely conducted and translated by Marco Masetti, done as his bachelor’s degree thesis in Italy.
这段采访全部由马克·马赛迪执导与翻译，作为其学士学位论文而完成。
The idea of multiplicity is innate in Peter Zumthor’s projects since his very first works: works of art surrounding us put on various meanings, which do not always remain on parallel levels combining well with dialectical relationships. The vague is planned strictly, holding by the rules of the architectural language. Beauty is in the undetermined, the multiple, but it is obtainable only through precision. Multiplicity of objects is shown only when who is living with them can distinguish their single parts and, at the same time, can see the work in its wholeness. This throw back to the “unitary” character of architecture, in which every part is in relation with the others and together they give a sense to the project. Zumthor’s planning is pure: nothing is pointless. In this society, as the architect says, «architecture has to oppose resistance», and react to the naughtiness of shapes and meanings, and return to talk its own language. Original shape invention or particular composition doesn’t take to the truth. Between multiplicity and silence there’s a tense and vibrational relationship, and the concrete idea is in their equilibrium.
从卒姆托的最早作品开始，多样性的理念始终与他的项目浑然一体；这种理念并不总是停留在与辩证关系紧密结合的平行层面。这种模糊性（暧昧性）是通过对建筑语言规则的坚持，严谨地计划的。美存在于这种不确定与多样之中，然而它却只能经由精确而获得。物体的多样性只有在当与它们一同生活的人能够区分其各单独部分，同时还能从整体来审视这些作品的时候，才能被显现出来。这反映于建筑的“单一”特性之中，其中每一部分都存在于与其他部分的关系中，而它们一起则为这个项目赋予了感觉。卒姆托的意图是单纯的：没有什么是无意义的。在这个社会中，如建筑师们所说，“建筑不得不拒绝抵抗”，而回应于形式与意义的俏皮之上，回归于自身语言的诉说。原始的形的创造或是特定的构成并不引人走向真实。多样性与寂静之间存在着一种紧张却有弹性的关系，而那坚实的理念存在于两者的平衡之中。
Things determine the spatial dimension of the world, and therefore its knowledge and usability to us. The project triggers a linking mechanism between things, so they can assume a meaning to the user, becoming an efficient tool to know of the world. Things, objects, the world of references, transform our sensations in remembrance. The pictures that come to mind enclose Zumthor’s research heart. Shape is the result, not the reason. Beauty doesn’t come out of the shape alone, but of the multiplicity of impressions, sensations and emotions that the shape has us to discover.
事物决定了世界的空间维度，从而决定了这世界给予我们的知识、对于我们的用途。方案触发事物之间链接的机械，它们从而能承担对于使用者的一种意义，成为了解世界的有效工具。事物、物体、指涉的世界，在它们的记忆中改造我们的知觉。意识中浮现的图象限定了卒姆托的研究核心。形是其结果，而非缘由。美并不能仅从形之中产生，而是从这形驱使我们去发掘的印象、知觉与情绪的多样性之中产生。
Saint Benedict - Courtesy of Marco Masetti（圣本尼迪克特-马克·马赛迪摄）
For Zumthor there is a strong connection between reality and living. This brings him to be oriented towards the concrete, imagining “things” and not “theories”. Emotion reveals the “authentic core” of things.
对于卒姆托来说，真实与生活之间存在着强有力的联系。这种联系使他被指引向具体性，想象着“事物”而非“理论”。情绪揭示了事物的“真实之核”。
From emotion he passes on to remembrance and memory, which are the central threads in Zumthor’s research.
他从情绪继续走向回想与记忆，那些正是卒姆托的研究的中心线索。
«The world is overloaded of signs and information, representative of things – Zumthor wrote – that nobody completely understands, because they are in turn nothing but signs representative of other signs. The real thing remains hidden. Nobody can ever see it». Zumthor’s architecture has nothing to hide from us: It is a direct sign that doesn’t throw back to other meanings.His architectural gestures remain dipped into the surroundings and don’t subjugate them to disputable formalisms. It’s no accident that his work is frequently categorized as minimal. Minimalist work always depends on a spectator, therefore it isn’t autonomous (or best, self-referenced), and furthermore it gives the impression to contain something, to be empty inside. «At the center of architecture, there seems to be an empty space. You can’t plan emptiness, but you can draw its boundaries, and so empty comes to life». So architecture is emptiness, and if the architect wants to produce beauty, he has to work on light and vibrations (sonorous, tactile…) that spread in this absence. Zumthor gives particular importance to the “metaphysical silence” and its peculiar and precise characteristics, akin to poetry. As George Steiner writes, «silence is an alternative. When, in the polis, words are filled with barbarism and lies, nothing talks as strongly as non-written poetry».
“世界负担了过多的符号与信息、事物的代表”，卒姆托写到，“这些东西没人能完全理解，因为它们除了作为代表其他符号的符号，如此往复以外，什么也不是。真实的事物却一直隐藏。甚至无人能看到它。”卒姆托的建筑没有需要从我们眼前隐藏的东西：它是一个直接的符号，并不回溯到其他意义。他的建筑的姿态沉浸在它的周遭环境之中，而不是使环境服从于有待商榷的形式主义之下。他的建筑频频被归类为极简之属并不是偶然的。极简主义作品往往取决于一个欣赏者，因此它不是自主的（或最好称作：自指的）；此外，它给人一种包含某物、中心空虚的印象。“在建筑学的中心，仿佛存在着一个虚空。你不能设计虚空，但是你可以画出它的边界，从而虚空获得了生命。因此，建筑即是虚空，而建筑师如果想要创造美，他必须在蔓延于这种缺失之中的光与振动之上工作（有声的，能触及的……）。”卒姆托给予“形而上的寂静”及其奇特而精确的特点以特别的重要性，类似于诗学。如乔治·斯坦纳所写：“寂静是一种选择，在希腊城邦之中（完全查不到in the polis的意思，polis是古希腊的城邦国家，这里只好作此解释），当话语充斥着野蛮与谎言，没有什么的言说能有未载之诗一样的力量。”
The process used by Zumthor to reach the memory is the «architectonic dramatization»: maybe it’s the only possible way to remember, because it’s only through emotions that mankind can remember. The monument, as a symbol, is not conceived by Zumthor, who imagines the building as a real place, not a content falsification. «To build a monument, – as he said – where every politician put up his plaque or his wreath, is the first act of forgetfulness».
卒姆托使用的触及记忆的程序是“建构的戏剧化”：也许这是记忆的唯一可能途径，因为只有通过情绪人类才能记忆。作为符号的纪念物，不是被卒姆托所构想的；他把建筑想象成一个真实的场所，而非对内容的曲解。“建起一个上面悬挂着所有政治人物的牌匾与花环的纪念碑，”他说，“是沦于健忘的第一步。”
In the shelters for the Roman archaeological site in Chur, Zumthor decides to establish an architectural link between the ruins and the city. The building is a filter between internal space and the city, that can penetrate, in the form of air, light and sound, through the thin plates in wood. The impression is to enter a non-temporal field: the space of the memory. Temporality is realized when the work considers the space in its totality, without distinctions between in and out. It is perceived only to (and in presence of) a spectator of the work that lives its volumes, contributing to strengthen the relations between architecture and the spectator himself.
在库尔（瑞士格劳宾登州的首府）的罗马考古遗址庇护所中，卒姆托决定在废墟与城市之间建立一种建筑学的链接。建筑成为室内空间与城市，那能以空气、光与声的形式穿透纤薄的木板的城市之间的过滤器。这种印象如同进入一个非时间性的领域：记忆的空间。时间性是在当作品从空间的整体考虑，而无内外的区分的时候得到实现的。这种时间性仅能被生活于其体量之中的（且在场的）欣赏者所感知，同时有助于加强建筑与欣赏者本身的联系。
In his works, light writes silently on objects the poetry, that is the only way to reach the truth – as he wrote in Thinking architecture. Originality and oddness have no connection with poetry. Air, light, sounds, and materials are the alphabet of his architecture, which speaks of itself, without however stunning us. A case in which (finally) the content returns to be the subject. This is the center of Zumthor’s architecture: they aren’t built to amaze us, as a performance, but they are here for man, who doesn’t have to be «stunned with chatter».
在他的作品中，光静谧地在物体上抒写诗意，而这是达到真实的唯一路途——就如他在《思考建筑》中所言。独创性与古怪性与诗意无缘。空气、光线、声音与材料是他的建筑的基本元素（alphabet原意是字母），它们言说自身，然并不使我们惊愕。这是内容终究回归于主旨的情境。这就是卒姆托的建筑的中心：它们并不是作为一种表演、为了使我们惊异而被建造，而是为那些不必“用喋喋不休去惊奇”的人而存在于斯。
Kunsthaus - Courtesy of Marco Masetti（布列根兹美术馆，马克·马赛迪摄）
Zumthor has never investigated the theme of the city. By the way in some case it’s possible to distinguish interesting characteristics of this topic. I think of the Kunsthaus Museum’s square in Bregenz, and also at the relationship between building, ruins and city in Koln.
卒姆托从未研究过城市的主题。不过在某些项目中还是有可能分辨出这个主题下的有趣特点的。我想到了（他的）那个处在布列根兹的，处在在科隆建筑、废墟与城市之间的关系中的美术馆广场。
Zumthor always prefers knowledge, thought, order, in a century when man is looking for simple pleasures, immediate and ephemeral. These are the reflections that motivated me to try interviewing Mr. Peter Zumthor.
在这个人们寻求着简单的、直接而短暂的乐趣的世纪里，卒姆托总是偏爱学识、思考与秩序。这些映像驱使我试着采访彼特·卒姆托先生。
敬请期待《与卒姆托谈论建筑》（访谈篇）
Talking about architecture with Peter Zumthor
还是那句话。欢迎交流探讨与指正。无论是翻译还是建筑学。
原帖地址：http://www.archdaily.com/85656/multiplicity-and-memory-talking-about-architecture-with-peter-zumthor/
原文与原文图片一切权利归属作者与AD。
多样性与记忆：与彼特·卒姆托谈论建筑
2010年11月
作者：尼克·萨耶
Multiplicity and Memory: Talking About Architecture with Peter Zumthor
NOV 2010
By Nico Saieh — Filed under: ArchDaily Interviews ,Featured , Peter Zumthor
 |
Peter Zumthor - Courtesy of Marco Masetti（卒姆托，马克·马赛迪摄）
This interview was completely conducted and translated by Marco Masetti, done as his bachelor’s degree thesis in Italy.
这段采访全部由马克·马赛迪执导与翻译，作为其学士学位论文而完成。
The idea of multiplicity is innate in Peter Zumthor’s projects since his very first works: works of art surrounding us put on various meanings, which do not always remain on parallel levels combining well with dialectical relationships. The vague is planned strictly, holding by the rules of the architectural language. Beauty is in the undetermined, the multiple, but it is obtainable only through precision. Multiplicity of objects is shown only when who is living with them can distinguish their single parts and, at the same time, can see the work in its wholeness. This throw back to the “unitary” character of architecture, in which every part is in relation with the others and together they give a sense to the project. Zumthor’s planning is pure: nothing is pointless. In this society, as the architect says, «architecture has to oppose resistance», and react to the naughtiness of shapes and meanings, and return to talk its own language. Original shape invention or particular composition doesn’t take to the truth. Between multiplicity and silence there’s a tense and vibrational relationship, and the concrete idea is in their equilibrium.
从卒姆托的最早作品开始，多样性的理念始终与他的项目浑然一体；这种理念并不总是停留在与辩证关系紧密结合的平行层面。这种模糊性（暧昧性）是通过对建筑语言规则的坚持，严谨地计划的。美存在于这种不确定与多样之中，然而它却只能经由精确而获得。物体的多样性只有在当与它们一同生活的人能够区分其各单独部分，同时还能从整体来审视这些作品的时候，才能被显现出来。这反映于建筑的“单一”特性之中，其中每一部分都存在于与其他部分的关系中，而它们一起则为这个项目赋予了感觉。卒姆托的意图是单纯的：没有什么是无意义的。在这个社会中，如建筑师们所说，“建筑不得不拒绝抵抗”，而回应于形式与意义的俏皮之上，回归于自身语言的诉说。原始的形的创造或是特定的构成并不引人走向真实。多样性与寂静之间存在着一种紧张却有弹性的关系，而那坚实的理念存在于两者的平衡之中。
Things determine the spatial dimension of the world, and therefore its knowledge and usability to us. The project triggers a linking mechanism between things, so they can assume a meaning to the user, becoming an efficient tool to know of the world. Things, objects, the world of references, transform our sensations in remembrance. The pictures that come to mind enclose Zumthor’s research heart. Shape is the result, not the reason. Beauty doesn’t come out of the shape alone, but of the multiplicity of impressions, sensations and emotions that the shape has us to discover.
事物决定了世界的空间维度，从而决定了这世界给予我们的知识、对于我们的用途。方案触发事物之间链接的机械，它们从而能承担对于使用者的一种意义，成为了解世界的有效工具。事物、物体、指涉的世界，在它们的记忆中改造我们的知觉。意识中浮现的图象限定了卒姆托的研究核心。形是其结果，而非缘由。美并不能仅从形之中产生，而是从这形驱使我们去发掘的印象、知觉与情绪的多样性之中产生。
 |
Saint Benedict - Courtesy of Marco Masetti（圣本尼迪克特-马克·马赛迪摄）
For Zumthor there is a strong connection between reality and living. This brings him to be oriented towards the concrete, imagining “things” and not “theories”. Emotion reveals the “authentic core” of things.
对于卒姆托来说，真实与生活之间存在着强有力的联系。这种联系使他被指引向具体性，想象着“事物”而非“理论”。情绪揭示了事物的“真实之核”。
From emotion he passes on to remembrance and memory, which are the central threads in Zumthor’s research.
他从情绪继续走向回想与记忆，那些正是卒姆托的研究的中心线索。
«The world is overloaded of signs and information, representative of things – Zumthor wrote – that nobody completely understands, because they are in turn nothing but signs representative of other signs. The real thing remains hidden. Nobody can ever see it». Zumthor’s architecture has nothing to hide from us: It is a direct sign that doesn’t throw back to other meanings.His architectural gestures remain dipped into the surroundings and don’t subjugate them to disputable formalisms. It’s no accident that his work is frequently categorized as minimal. Minimalist work always depends on a spectator, therefore it isn’t autonomous (or best, self-referenced), and furthermore it gives the impression to contain something, to be empty inside. «At the center of architecture, there seems to be an empty space. You can’t plan emptiness, but you can draw its boundaries, and so empty comes to life». So architecture is emptiness, and if the architect wants to produce beauty, he has to work on light and vibrations (sonorous, tactile…) that spread in this absence. Zumthor gives particular importance to the “metaphysical silence” and its peculiar and precise characteristics, akin to poetry. As George Steiner writes, «silence is an alternative. When, in the polis, words are filled with barbarism and lies, nothing talks as strongly as non-written poetry».
“世界负担了过多的符号与信息、事物的代表”，卒姆托写到，“这些东西没人能完全理解，因为它们除了作为代表其他符号的符号，如此往复以外，什么也不是。真实的事物却一直隐藏。甚至无人能看到它。”卒姆托的建筑没有需要从我们眼前隐藏的东西：它是一个直接的符号，并不回溯到其他意义。他的建筑的姿态沉浸在它的周遭环境之中，而不是使环境服从于有待商榷的形式主义之下。他的建筑频频被归类为极简之属并不是偶然的。极简主义作品往往取决于一个欣赏者，因此它不是自主的（或最好称作：自指的）；此外，它给人一种包含某物、中心空虚的印象。“在建筑学的中心，仿佛存在着一个虚空。你不能设计虚空，但是你可以画出它的边界，从而虚空获得了生命。因此，建筑即是虚空，而建筑师如果想要创造美，他必须在蔓延于这种缺失之中的光与振动之上工作（有声的，能触及的……）。”卒姆托给予“形而上的寂静”及其奇特而精确的特点以特别的重要性，类似于诗学。如乔治·斯坦纳所写：“寂静是一种选择，在希腊城邦之中（完全查不到in the polis的意思，polis是古希腊的城邦国家，这里只好作此解释），当话语充斥着野蛮与谎言，没有什么的言说能有未载之诗一样的力量。”
The process used by Zumthor to reach the memory is the «architectonic dramatization»: maybe it’s the only possible way to remember, because it’s only through emotions that mankind can remember. The monument, as a symbol, is not conceived by Zumthor, who imagines the building as a real place, not a content falsification. «To build a monument, – as he said – where every politician put up his plaque or his wreath, is the first act of forgetfulness».
卒姆托使用的触及记忆的程序是“建构的戏剧化”：也许这是记忆的唯一可能途径，因为只有通过情绪人类才能记忆。作为符号的纪念物，不是被卒姆托所构想的；他把建筑想象成一个真实的场所，而非对内容的曲解。“建起一个上面悬挂着所有政治人物的牌匾与花环的纪念碑，”他说，“是沦于健忘的第一步。”
In the shelters for the Roman archaeological site in Chur, Zumthor decides to establish an architectural link between the ruins and the city. The building is a filter between internal space and the city, that can penetrate, in the form of air, light and sound, through the thin plates in wood. The impression is to enter a non-temporal field: the space of the memory. Temporality is realized when the work considers the space in its totality, without distinctions between in and out. It is perceived only to (and in presence of) a spectator of the work that lives its volumes, contributing to strengthen the relations between architecture and the spectator himself.
在库尔（瑞士格劳宾登州的首府）的罗马考古遗址庇护所中，卒姆托决定在废墟与城市之间建立一种建筑学的链接。建筑成为室内空间与城市，那能以空气、光与声的形式穿透纤薄的木板的城市之间的过滤器。这种印象如同进入一个非时间性的领域：记忆的空间。时间性是在当作品从空间的整体考虑，而无内外的区分的时候得到实现的。这种时间性仅能被生活于其体量之中的（且在场的）欣赏者所感知，同时有助于加强建筑与欣赏者本身的联系。
In his works, light writes silently on objects the poetry, that is the only way to reach the truth – as he wrote in Thinking architecture. Originality and oddness have no connection with poetry. Air, light, sounds, and materials are the alphabet of his architecture, which speaks of itself, without however stunning us. A case in which (finally) the content returns to be the subject. This is the center of Zumthor’s architecture: they aren’t built to amaze us, as a performance, but they are here for man, who doesn’t have to be «stunned with chatter».
在他的作品中，光静谧地在物体上抒写诗意，而这是达到真实的唯一路途——就如他在《思考建筑》中所言。独创性与古怪性与诗意无缘。空气、光线、声音与材料是他的建筑的基本元素（alphabet原意是字母），它们言说自身，然并不使我们惊愕。这是内容终究回归于主旨的情境。这就是卒姆托的建筑的中心：它们并不是作为一种表演、为了使我们惊异而被建造，而是为那些不必“用喋喋不休去惊奇”的人而存在于斯。
 |
Kunsthaus - Courtesy of Marco Masetti（布列根兹美术馆，马克·马赛迪摄）
Zumthor has never investigated the theme of the city. By the way in some case it’s possible to distinguish interesting characteristics of this topic. I think of the Kunsthaus Museum’s square in Bregenz, and also at the relationship between building, ruins and city in Koln.
卒姆托从未研究过城市的主题。不过在某些项目中还是有可能分辨出这个主题下的有趣特点的。我想到了（他的）那个处在布列根兹的，处在在科隆建筑、废墟与城市之间的关系中的美术馆广场。
Zumthor always prefers knowledge, thought, order, in a century when man is looking for simple pleasures, immediate and ephemeral. These are the reflections that motivated me to try interviewing Mr. Peter Zumthor.
在这个人们寻求着简单的、直接而短暂的乐趣的世纪里，卒姆托总是偏爱学识、思考与秩序。这些映像驱使我试着采访彼特·卒姆托先生。
敬请期待《与卒姆托谈论建筑》（访谈篇）
Talking about architecture with Peter Zumthor
