外语中有疑问词”第几“吗(不讨论英语)?

yong321

来自: yong321 2012-11-27 11:28:28

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  • W

    W (茶番) 2012-11-28 14:23:49

    日语 何番目
    韩语 몇번째
    这两个貌似是”第几“的意思

  • yong321

    yong321 2012-11-29 01:34:17

    谢谢!遗憾我对日、韩语均一无所知。我只会我列出的几种语言。


    顺便说一句,如果我在blogspot.com上的那篇短文不能读,请告知。我可以贴在这里。

  • W

    W (茶番) 2012-11-29 09:13:39

    我这边确实打不开,可以的话想学习一下的

  • yong321

    yong321 2012-11-29 12:03:11

    Copied from
    http://english-for-chinese.blogspot.com/2012/08/has-no-english-equivalent.html

    Sunday, August 5, 2012

    "第几" has no English equivalent

    It's a frequently asked question in English study forums in China (recently here http://www.douban.com/group/topic/31374821/). How do you say "第几" in English? When A asks B, "这是你第几次来纽约?" (literally, "This is which time you come to New York?"), B may answer "第二次" ("The second time"). A more natural English question may be, "How many times have you come to New York?", "Twice", or "How many times did you come to New York before?", "Only once (before)".

    The awkward "which time" is a literal equivalent of "第几次" as in "Which time is it you come to New York?" The English "time" is one word for both the time you use a clock to keep track of and the ordinal count of repetition of you doing something, which is a measure word. Other languages may use two words for these meanings (时间, Zeit vs. 次, Mal). The reason "which time" sounds unnatural may be related to this particular polysemy (one word having multiple meanings) of English "time".

    Here are more challenging ones, "第几个", "第几件", and "第几本", as in "老师要我们读John XYZ的ABC系列的所有三本书,你在读第几本?" ("The teacher wants us to read John XYZ's all three books in the ABC series. Which book are you on|reading now?") But "Which book are you on?" is not a good translation because the answer may well be "I'm reading his Book Title". The question actually demands the answer "I'm reading his first|second|third one". English "which" properly matches "哪一(本)". It does not specifically ask the ordinal number as the Chinese "第几(本)". The fact that these Chinese question words are more challenging is probably because "个" and "本" have no measure word equivalents in English, and although "件" may be "piece", "Which piece ...?" does not specifically demand an answer of the ordinal number in the series.

    A little follow-up. A Chinese reader says "So English is deficient?" My answer is that every language may have stronger expressive power than another in one case, but less in another. In this case, Chinese wins. In the case of subjunctive mood, ...

  • W

    W (茶番) 2012-12-01 10:49:04

    学习了
    之前看到标题时我第一反应是"你得了第几名"的第几
    中文通过加不一样的量词(或其他词)就能对不同对象提问,所以不知这种提问方式是不是只会出现在量词功能比较强大的语言里?
    没法用量词提示的就只能明明白白把话解释一遍了

  • yong321

    yong321 2012-12-01 12:44:16

    > 之前看到标题时我第一反应是"你得了第几名"的第几

    “第几名”是特例,因为英文的"What place was he in?"的答案基本只能是"First|Second|Third|... place". 即是说,没有除用序数(ordinal number)以外的方法能回答的。而"Which book are you reading now?"的答案就既可以是“I'm reading Harry Potter”也可以是"I'm reading the third book".

    > 不知这种提问方式是不是只会出现在量词功能比较强大的语言里?

    我也如此猜想。但我对除英文以外的外文还不太熟,不敢贸然做结论。我知道德文有Mal/Zeit、西文有veces/tiempo、法文有fois/temps之分,而英文没有,想请教那三种语言是否可以准确地用“第几次”提问。

  • 小颖子

    小颖子 (情绪稳定的围观群众) 2012-12-01 13:13:19

    俄语也有

  • yong321

    yong321 2012-12-02 08:06:36

    俄语也有 俄语也有 小颖子

    谢谢!能举个例吗?我很多年前学了一年俄语,现在基本完全忘了,但还是想看看。

  • 小颖子

    小颖子 (情绪稳定的围观群众) 2012-12-02 10:13:38

    Какой 有“哪个”“第几个”的意思

  • yong321

    yong321 2012-12-03 01:53:26

    我看了一下Какой,看来它可作“哪一个”解,那么它就不是严格对应汉语“第几个”的疑问词。

    我重述一下我的问题。汉语“这是你第几次来纽约?”字面上对应英语Which time is this you come to New York?但这句英语不地道,没有人说Which time,而只是说How many times did you come before? 又如,汉语“你在读老师规定读的第几本书?”,回答只能用序数词,如“第三本”,但英语Which (book) of all the books the teacher wants us to read are you reading now?既可用序数词回答(I'm reading the 3rd book),也可用其他方式(I'm reading Gone with the Wind 或 I'm reading the one by Jack London)。

    我的问题是,在其他语言中是否存在疑问词要求对问题的回答只能用序数词,相当于汉语“第几”?

  • 肉丸R胡辣湯

    肉丸R胡辣湯 (妬恙妬辛乶三他任须那異武) 2017-11-09 15:57:30

    獨(DE):der/das/die wievielte
    中(CN):第幾
    蘭(NL):de/het hoeveelste

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  • 肉丸R胡辣湯

    肉丸R胡辣湯 (妬恙妬辛乶三他任须那異武) 2017-11-09 16:09:08

    贵句獨譯卽: zum wie vielten Mal bist Du in Newyork?
    蘭语初学,不會"次"。

    其他諸语,恐可用 how often so far這種來繞。

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  • 肉丸R胡辣湯

    肉丸R胡辣湯 (妬恙妬辛乶三他任须那異武) 2017-11-09 16:12:28

    世界語應該也可以 La kiela Foje estas vi en Njujorko?不是很确定。。。

    硬♂套英語就是 the howmany'th time

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  • 肉丸R胡辣湯

    肉丸R胡辣湯 (妬恙妬辛乶三他任须那異武) 2017-11-09 16:22:29

    錯了。。是 la kioma foje.

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  • W

    W (茶番) 2017-11-09 17:12:35

    点进来一看自己竟然回复过……
    波斯语里也有“第几”:چندم
    一般都用序数词回答

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  • ТТНК慕陀颇

    ТТНК慕陀颇 (ТилТорНинКо) 2017-11-09 20:32:44

    突厥语族有Qač-ïnčï "多少-序数词后缀", 如土耳其语 kaçıncı

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  • yong321

    yong321 2017-11-16 11:52:11

    谢谢関中肉丸胡辣湯 、未完、महाभारत。我几年前将blogspot.com上的博客拷贝到个人网站上,又在几个(非汉语的)论坛咨询,得到了十来种语言对这个问题的答案,总结在这里:
    http://yong321.freeshell.org/english4chinese/follow-up-has-no-english-equivalent.html
    其中已有德语、荷兰语、世界语、波斯语的“第几”,跟肉丸胡辣湯 、未完给出的词相同。谢谢महाभारत提供突厥语、土耳其语,我刚刚补充上了。

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