《转变的紧迫性》之“个人与团体”

艾丽丝

来自: 艾丽丝 2012-10-08 22:34:23

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  • 艾丽丝

    艾丽丝 2012-10-08 22:40:35

    THE URGENCY OF CHANGE - 'THE NEW HUMAN BEING'
    《转变的紧迫性》之“新人类”

    Questioner: I am a reformer, a social worker. Seeing the extraordinary injustice there is in the world my whole life has been dedicated to reform. I used to be a Communist but I can't go along with Communism any more, it has ended in tyranny. Nevertheless, I am still dedicated to reforming society so that man can live in dignity, beauty and freedom, and realize the potential which nature seems to have given him, and which he himself seems always to have stolen from his fellow man. In America there is a certain kind of freedom, and yet standardization and propaganda are very strong there - all the mass media exert a tremendous pressure on the mind. It seems that the power of television, this mechanical thing that man has invented, has developed its own personality, its own will, its own momentum; and though probably nobody - perhaps not even any one group - is deliberately using it to influence society, its trend shapes the very souls of our children. And this is the same in varying degrees in all democracies. In China there seems to be no hope at all for the dignity or freedom of man, while in India the government is weak, corrupt and inefficient. It seems to me that all the social injustice in the world absolutely must be changed. I want passionately to do something about it, yet I don't know where to begin to tackle it.

    发问者:我是一个改革者,一个社会工作者。看到世界上存在着极端的不公,我的整个生命都用在了改革上。我曾是一名共产党,但是我不再赞同共产主义了,它以暴政为终结。虽然如此,我依然投身于社会改革,以期人类能够生活在尊严,美好和自由中,认识到自然似乎已经赋予了人类这种潜能,而人类自己似乎总是从自己的对手中盗窃这种潜能。在美国有某种程度的自由,但是格式化式的宣传在那还是非常强大——所有的大众媒体对思想产生了巨大的压力。似乎电视的力量,这种人类发明的很机械的东西已经形成了它自己的个性,它自己的意愿和动量;尽管也许没有哪一个人,甚至也许没有任何一个组织——有意利用电视来影响社会,但是正是它带来的倾向塑造了我们孩子的心灵。而这种情况不同程度地在所有民主国家里大都存在。在中国,人的尊严或自由似乎毫无希望,然而在印度政府缺乏威信,腐败并且效率低下。在我看来,世界上的所有社会不公绝对必须加以改变。我急切地想为此做点什么,但是我不知道从哪里开始着手解决。

    Krishnamurti: Reform needs further reform, and this is an endless process. So let us look at it differently. Let us put aside the whole thought of reform; let us wipe it out of our blood. Let us completely forget this idea of wanting to reform the world. Then let us see actually what is happening, right throughout the world. Political parties always have a limited programme which, even if fulfilled, invariably brings about mischief, which then has to be corrected once again. We are always talking about political action as being a most important action, but political action is not the way. Let us put it out of our minds. All social and economic reforms come under this category. Then there is the religious formula of action based on belief, idealism, dogmatism, conformity to some so-called divine recipe. In this is involved authority and acceptance, obedience and the utter denial of freedom. Though religions talk of peace on earth they contribute to the disorder because they are a factor of division. Also the churches have always taken some political stand in times of crisis, so they are really political bodies, and we have seen that all political action is divisive. The churches have never really denied war: on the contrary they have waged war. So when one puts aside the religious recipes, as one puts aside the political formulas - what is left, and what is one to do? Naturally civic order must be maintained: you have to have water in the taps. If you destroy civic order you have to start again from the beginning. So, what is one to do?

    克:改革需要更进一步的改革,而这是一个永无止境的过程。所以让我们换个角度来看待这个问题。让我们先将整个改革的想法放一放,让我们先将自己身上的血液清洗一遍。让我们彻底忘记想要改革这个世界的想法。然后让我们再来看看整个世界到底发生了什么。不同的政党总是有一套受到限制的纲领,即便得以实施,不可避免地会带来伤害,于是又不得不再一次地修订。我们总是将政治行动当作最重要的行动来讨论,但是政治行动不是办法。让我们把它从我们的心里摒除出去。所有社会和经济改革都属于这个范畴。然后还有基于信仰、唯心主义、教条主义和符合某些所谓的拜神用的食品等宗教方面的行为准则。这些都包含了权威、接受、服从和对自由的完全否定。尽管不同的宗教都在高谈和平,但是它们助长了这个失序的世界,因为它们是分裂的因素之一。另外教会总是在危机时刻采取某种政治立场,所以它们实际上是政治实体,而我们已经看清楚了所有的政治活动都是分裂的。不同的教派从来没有真正地否定战争:相反,它们发动了战争。所以当一个人将供奉的食品扔在一边时,就像他将政治信条扔在一边时那样——那么他还剩下什么呢?他又该如何去做呢?自然公民的秩序必须维护:你的水龙头必须放得出水。如果你破坏了公民秩序,你必须从头再来一次。那么,他又该如何怎么去做呢?

    Questioner: That is what I am actually asking you.
    Krishnamurti: Be concerned with radical change, with total revolution. The only revolution is the revolution between man and man, between human beings. That is our only concern. In this revolution there are no blueprints, no ideologies, no conceptual utopias. We must take the fact of the actual relationship between men and change that radically. That is the real thing. And this revolution must be immediate, it must not take time. It is not achieved through evolution, which is time.

    发问者:这正是我在问你的。
    克:要关注根本的转变,关注彻底的革命。只有一个革命那就是人与人之间的,人类之间的革命。这是我们唯一要去关注的。在这个革命中,没有蓝图,没有意识形态,没有概念上的乌托邦。我们必须把实际中的人际关系,进行彻底地改变。这才是真正意义上的事情。而这个革命必须马上进行,决不能假以时日。完成这个革命不能通过进化,即不能通过时间。

    Questioner: What do you mean? All historical changes have taken place in time; none of them has been immediate. You are proposing something quite inconceivable.

    发问者:你是什么意思?历史上所有已经发生的变革都是花时间的;没有哪一个是当即进行的。你在倡议一些不能想象的事情。

    Krishnamurti: If you take time to change, do you suppose that life is in suspension during the time it takes to change? It isn't in suspension. Everything you are trying to change is being modified and perpetuated by the environment, by life itself. So there is no end to it. It is like trying to clean the water in a tank which is constantly being refilled with dirty water. So time is out.

    克:如果你要花时间去改变,那么你认为在变革期间应当先搁置生活吗?生活当然没有被搁置。你试图改变的一切都随着环境和生活的本身在不断地调整、维持。所以生活没有停止。这就好比想要清洗一个水槽却不断地在往里面灌入脏水一样。所以没有时间了。

    Now, what is to bring about this change? It cannot be will, or determination, or choice, or desire, because all these are part of the entity that has to be changed. So we must ask what actually is possible, without the action of will and assertiveness which is always the action of conflict.

    那么,是什么导致这场变革呢?不可能是意志、决心、选择和欲望,因为所有这些都是须要改变的实体部分。于是我们必须问清楚,究竟怎样才是可行的,既不是意志的行动,也不是自信的行动,意志和自信永远都是冲突的行动。

    Questioner: Is there any action which is not the action of will and assertiveness?

    发问者:有任何不是意志和自信的行动的吗?

    Krishnamurti: Instead of asking this question let us go much deeper. Let us see that actually it is only the action of will and assertiveness that needs to be changed at all, because the only mischief in relationship is conflict, between individuals or within individuals, and conflict is will and assertiveness. Living without such action does not mean that we live like vegetables. Conflict is our main concern. All the social maladies you mentioned are the projection of this conflict in the heart of each human being. The only possible change is a radical transformation of yourself in all your relationships, not in some vague future, but now.

    克:与其问这种问题不如让我们更深入地进行下去。让我们看清楚实际上只有意志和自信的行动才是需要被改变的,因为关系中唯一的伤害就是个体之间或者个体之内的冲突,而冲突就是意志和自信。生活中没有这种行动并不意味着我们活得像蔬菜似的。冲突是我们主要关心的事情。你提到的所有社会弊端都是每一个人内心冲突的投射。唯一可能的改变是在你自己所有的关系中彻底地转变你自己,而不是等到某一个模糊不清的将来,就是现在。

    Questioner: But how can I completely eradicate this conflict in myself, this contradiction, this resistance, this conditioning? I understand what you mean intellectually, but I can only change when I feel it passionately, and I don't feel it passionately. It is merely an idea to me; I don't see it with my heart. If I try to act on this intellectual understanding I am in conflict with another, deeper, part of myself.

    发问者:但是我如何彻底根除我身上的这种冲突、这种矛盾、这种反抗和这种现状呢?理性上我明白你的意思,但是只有当我强烈地感受到时我才会去改变它,而我现在并没有强烈的感受到。它对我只是个概念;我内心看不到它。如果我试着按照理性上的理解来行动的话,那么我就会与我自己更深层的另一面发生冲突。

    Krishnamurti: If you really see this contradiction passionately, then that very perception is the revolution. If you see in yourself this division between the mind and the heart, actually see it, not conceive of it theoretically, but see it, then the problem comes to an end. A man who is passionate about the world and the necessity for change, must be free from political activity, religious conformity and tradition - which means, free from the weight of time, free from the burden of the past, free from all the action of will: this is the new human being. This only is the social, psychological, and even the political revolution.

    克:如果你真的强烈地观察到这一矛盾,那么这觉察的本身就是革命。如果你观察到自己头脑和心灵之间这种分裂,是真真切切地观察到了,而不是理论上的构想,而是的确观察到了,那么这个问题就结束了。一个热衷于世界而且认为必须改变世界的人,必须从政治活动,遵奉宗教和传统中解脱出来——这就意味着,必须从时间的重负下解脱,必须从过去的负担里解脱,必须从所有意志的行动里解脱:这就是新人类。这是唯一的社会上,心理上的乃至政治上的革命。

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